Racing game fans - how realistic are these games?

[The_cranky_hermit]

Rate as many of the following games as you can, on a scale of 1 to 10, for realism. 1 is Super Mario Kart. 10 is an actual motor vehicle, remote controlled from your computer.

2000:
Grand Prix 3
Metropolis Street Racer
Midtown Madness 2
Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed

2001:
Gran Turismo 3
Project Gotham Racing

2002:
Grand Prix 4
Hard Truck: 18 Wheels of Steel
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2
Sega GT 2002

2003:
Midnight Club II
NASCAR Racing 2003 Season
Need for Speed Underground
Project Gotham Racing 2

2004:
FlatOut
Gran Turismo 4
Need for Speed Underground 2
Richard Burns Rally

2005:
Cross Racing Championship 2005
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
Project Gotham Racing 3
SCAR: Squadra Corse Alfa Romeo

2006:
FlatOut 2
MotorStorm
Need for Speed: Carbon
Test Drive Unlimited
TrackMania Nations ESWC
TOCA Race Driver 3

2007:
DiRT
Formula One Championship Edition
Forza Motorsport 2
Need for Speed: ProStreet
SEGA Rally Revo

2008:
GRID
Need for Speed: Undercover
Pure

2009:
FUEL
Need for Speed: SHIFT

2010:
Split/Second

[Tanuki]

Super Mario Kart

Best racing game ever.

[yogibbear]

Rate as many of the following games as you can, on a scale of 1 to 10, for realism. 1 is Super Mario Kart. 10 is an actual motor vehicle, remote controlled from your computer.

2000:
Grand Prix 3
Metropolis Street Racer
Midtown Madness 2
Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed

2001:
Gran Turismo 3 - 9
Project Gotham Racing - 6

2002:
Grand Prix 4
Hard Truck: 18 Wheels of Steel
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2
Sega GT 2002

2003:
Midnight Club II - 4
NASCAR Racing 2003 Season
Need for Speed Underground - 4
Project Gotham Racing 2 - 5

2004:
FlatOut
Gran Turismo 4 - 9
Need for Speed Underground 2 - 3
Richard Burns Rally

2005:
Cross Racing Championship 2005
Need for Speed: Most Wanted - 2
Project Gotham Racing 3 - 3
SCAR: Squadra Corse Alfa Romeo

2006:
FlatOut 2
MotorStorm - 4
Need for Speed: Carbon - 3
Test Drive Unlimited
TrackMania Nations ESWC
TOCA Race Driver 3

2007:
DiRT - 7
Formula One Championship Edition - 8
Forza Motorsport 2 - 5
Need for Speed: ProStreet
SEGA Rally Revo

2008:
GRID - 7
Need for Speed: Undercover
Pure

2009:
FUEL
Need for Speed: SHIFT

2010:
Split/Second

One's i've played in bold.

[whismerhill]

2000:
1 Midtown Madness 2 (because you could go onto the top of buildings ...)
5 Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed (because I found old vehicles quite interesting the way they banked in turns)

2002:
7 Hard Truck: 18 Wheels of Steel (however I'm no truck driver so it's a bit difficult to say)
3 Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2

2003:
1 Midnight Club II (well ... this one is pretty arcade so ...)
1 Need for Speed Underground (WTF crashing instead of braking in a turn will give you better times !)

2004:
5 FlatOut (very fun to play, need to carefully control the speed at which you take turns & bumps however I don't really know how realistic that is)
1 Need for Speed Underground 2 (WTF crashing instead of braking in a turn will give you better times !)

2005:
1 Need for Speed: Most Wanted

2006:
1 Need for Speed: Carbon (WTF crashing instead of braking in a turn will give you better times !)
6 Test Drive Unlimited (jumps seem a bit overdone, bikes physic is totally off, otherwise I think it's quite realistic with a lot of parameters taken into account)

2007:
5 DiRT (brakes are too powerful and feels arcade, yet you still have to control your speed or lose time)

2008:
4 GRID (the autocatchup to keep the challenge throughout the races is a shame, rest is ok)

PS: everything is obviously my own opinion

[Skid]

In GRID I'm fairly sure you can turn catchup off, at least I think I did because I don't like catchup ether.

[whismerhill]

yes you can tweak the files manually and do that, but then difficulty settings don't mean a thing anymore & the whole game will be VERY HARD ...
more so since most races are often too short to get back from 20th to 1st & since there's no control on your starting place ...
also catchup actually allows your companion AI to get into good places (1st or 2nd) without that he's just doomed except maybe in a couple of races where he will outshine everyone & start in good place from the start ......

bottom line, the catchup feels like it's deeply integrated into the game to me

[yogibbear]

Yeah i think Grid goes out of its way to make you have memorable races where you just pass 3 drivers on the last lap and the last one you're basically nose to nose around the final corner etc. etc. which tends to make me feel a nice rush of adrenaline (despite it just being a silly computer game...) and then you can sit back and muck around with the replay thing and gawk at your own perfect lap. Or at least that's how i found it. Plus it means if you managed to pull off a perfect lap in the first lap of a race and get into 1st/2nd for the rest of the race you're still struggling. The only time i REALLY hated catchup was in the le mans events.

[FramerateUK]

I'm quite fussy with racing games, if the handling isn't right it totally ruins the experience for me, but you can have arcade style games where the handling is pretty good and feels fairly accurate, even if it's a bit off in other areas.

Here's my take on the ones I've played:

2000:
6 - Metropolis Street Racer
2 - Midtown Madness 2
5 - Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed

Both MSR and Porche Unleashed were very good for the time, and PU was definately more of a simulation than Road Challenge/High Stakes which preceded it (incidentally, High Stakes is one of my favorite racing games of all time).

2001:
9 - Gran Turismo 3
7 - Project Gotham Racing

Both were pretty accurate, PGR's obsession with drifting and the points related stuff is a bit silly though and detracted from reality.

2002:
4 - Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2
Pure arcade action, but the handling was actually pretty good.

2003:
2 - Midnight Club II
3 - Need for Speed Underground
7 - Project Gotham Racing 2

Gotham, again loses out because of the points based drifting and driving stuff. Underground, while a lot of run, wasn't the slightest bit realistic.

2004:
9 - Gran Turismo 4
3 - Need for Speed Underground 2

Underground 2 was even more unrealistic than the first one.

2005:
5 - Need for Speed: Most Wanted
7 - Project Gotham Racing 3

I think most wanted has some pretty good handling, but it's clearly an arcade game.

2006:
3 - Need for Speed: Carbon
7 - Test Drive Unlimited
2 - TrackMania Nations ESWC
6 - TOCA Race Driver 3

2007:
6 - DiRT
9 - Forza Motorsport 2
4 - Need for Speed: ProStreet
2 - SEGA Rally Revo

Prostreet tried to be accurate but failed horrendously. The handling just felt really wrong.
Sega Rally was a lot of fun, but wasn't in the slightest bit realistic. Forza has always felt very accurate, and my driving on it on the xbox has been very close to my driving on real circuits.

2008:
2 - Need for Speed: Undercover
Horrible. You could powerslide corners at 250kph without even braking. It wasn't even fun.

2009:
7 - Need for Speed: SHIFT
Very good actually. It still has the arcade feel to it, but if you want to drive properly, the engine really does let you. Feels great with the 360 wheel and the track recreations are very good.

[scavvenjahh]

Midtown Madness 2 had pretty photorealistic car textures for the time... :hide

I won't even try to rate games, it raises too many questions in my idle mind (What is realism ? Is there only one way to be "realistic" and degrees in achieving realism ? Can I be a "keyboard driver" and discuss realism ?) but there's just one thing I'd love to know: what would 5 be ? :?

[TMK]

2000:
Grand Prix 3 - 6
Metropolis Street Racer - 1
Midtown Madness 2 - 1
Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed - 3

2001:
Gran Turismo 3
Project Gotham Racing

2002:
Grand Prix 4 - 7
Hard Truck: 18 Wheels of Steel
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2 - 1
Sega GT 2002

2003:
Midnight Club II
NASCAR Racing 2003 Season - 9
Need for Speed Underground - 1
Project Gotham Racing 2

2004:
FlatOut - 2
Gran Turismo 4
Need for Speed Underground 2 - 1
Richard Burns Rally - 9

2005:
Cross Racing Championship 2005
Need for Speed: Most Wanted - 1
Project Gotham Racing 3
SCAR: Squadra Corse Alfa Romeo

2006:
FlatOut 2 - 2
MotorStorm
Need for Speed: Carbon - 1
Test Drive Unlimited - 2
TrackMania Nations ESWC - 1
TOCA Race Driver 3 - 5

2007:
DiRT - 5
Formula One Championship Edition - 2
Forza Motorsport 2
Need for Speed: ProStreet - 1
SEGA Rally Revo

2008:
GRID - 5
Need for Speed: Undercover - 1
Pure - 2

2009:
FUEL - 2
Need for Speed: SHIFT - 5

2010:
Split/Second
One's i've played in bold. One more thing. Where is Grand Prix Legends, Nascar Racing 1/2/3/4/2000/2002, etc.? You forgot about many racing titles. You should check http://www.bhmotorsports.com and update the list ;)

[whismerhill]

Midtown Madness 2 had pretty photorealistic car textures for the time... :hide

I won't even try to rate games, it raises too many questions in my idle mind (What is realism ? Is there only one way to be "realistic" and degrees in achieving realism ? Can I be a "keyboard driver" and discuss realism ?) but there's just one thing I'd love to know: what would 5 be ? :?

I think 10 is a perfect simulation 1 is an absolute arcade game with no more strings attached to reality
& 5 is a middle ground, half arcade half realistic
and yes you can be a keyboard driver & discuss realism, realism is not about how you control your virtual car in front of your computer, it's about :
if I turn my wheels about X degrees in this direction, that I have this car with this weight & parameters, that I'm speeding at Y km/h, and that the road is made of this & that materials & is heading in this direction, then if this was real the car should behave in this way, however since it's a game, the car really behaved this other way so what's the difference between the two ? & deduce the rating...

however some games like TDU are better driven with a 360° wheel & analog speed control... still this has more to do with how they designed controls than any realism and you can still learn to drive no problem with other controls
(most games prevent overturning the wheels at high speed due to the limited controls most people have when gaming, TDU doesn't seem to do so)

I don't think of it like an absolute rating, it's just a way to show how you as a person feel toward those games on the reality standpoint

[The_cranky_hermit]

Thanks for the responses! Let's say all racing games voted on had to be stratified into "action game" and "sim." Does this look about right?

BTW - I think "5" means "minimum amount of realism needed to qualify as a sim."


Action game:

2000:
Midtown Madness 2

2002:
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit

2003:
Midnight Club II
Need for Speed Underground

2004:
FlatOut
Need for Speed Underground 2

2005:
Need for Speed: Most Wanted

2006:
FlatOut 2
MotorStorm
Need for Speed: Carbon
TrackMania Nations ESWC

2007:
Need for Speed: ProStreet
SEGA Rally Revo

2008:
Need for Speed: Undercover
Pure

2009:
FUEL


Sim:

2000:
Grand Prix 3
Metropolis Street Racer
Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed

2001:
Gran Turismo 3
Project Gotham Racing

2002:
Grand Prix 4
Hard Truck: 18 Wheels of Steel

2003:
NASCAR Racing 2003 Season
Project Gotham Racing 2

2004:
Gran Turismo 4
Richard Burns Rally

2005:
Project Gotham Racing 3

2006:
Test Drive Unlimited
TOCA Race Driver 3

2007:
DiRT
Formula One Championship Edition
Forza Motorsport 2

2008:
GRID

2009:
Need for Speed: SHIFT

[FramerateUK]

Yeah that looks pretty accurate to me!

[The_cranky_hermit]

How about the earlier Need For Speed games (pre-Porsche Unleashed)? How would you classify those?

[FramerateUK]

Definately arcade style games.

NFS: Road Challenge/High Stakes is still one of my all time favorite racing games, but it's pure arcade action all the way, there isn't really much of a sim element to it, except for a pretty basic damage model.

The earlier ones are even more arcady - but still good, especially NFS2:SE :)

[phantom]

A few Sim titles . . .

Based on Image Space Inc's graphics / physics engine, GMotor 2

SportsCarGT (GMotor 1) - 1999
F1 2000 - 2000
F1 Championship Season 2000 - late 2000
F1 2001 - late 2001
F1 2002 - 2002
GTR2002 (Simbin's mod for F1 2002, based on the FIA GT racing series)
F1 Challenge '99-'02 - 2003
GTR (Simbin's first standalone release) - 2005
King Of Ovals (Free Add-On for GTR) - 2005
GT Legends - 2005
rFactor - 2005
GTR2 - 2006
RACE - 2006
RACE 07 - 2007
GTR Evolution - 2008
RACE ON - 2009


Other Sim Titles

Live for Speed - 2003

netKar Pro - 2006

iRacing - 2008

A good reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_racing_simulators