Problem With TripleHead2Go and FSX 2D View

TomG628 · Post by **TomG628** » 26 Aug 2009, 22:23

Hi,
A forum post said this is the ideal place to help me with my frustrating problem, so here goes.

I have FSX running on a new Gateway FX6800-01e computer with 3, identical Gateway 19" Widescreen Monitors. I also have X-Plane which seems to work fine so far in all view modes. I just installed Matrox TH2G Digital edition and FSX works fine in 3D Virtual view with over 30 fps but as soon as I go to the 2D view I just have an outside view with nothing but black where the cockpit panel should be across all 3 monitors. In other words the whole bottom third or half of the monitors is black. It seems to be the case with all aircraft, although with the default Cessna 172 and Garmin 1000, all the partial panels seem fine except that direct forward view. In addition, the mouse cursor is flashing rapidly and the little "busy" windows circle is also flashing like crazy. When I return to 3D view the view is back to normal across all 3 monitors, but the cursor is still going nuts, and framerates are down to about 20 unless I reboot FSX asn start over. The 2D, 2 and 10 o'clock views seem fine, it's just the direct forward view.

A few answers to my posts in Avsim and Flightsim acknowledge the same missing panel problem, but said they just ignore it and stick to the virtual view. Others say they have no problem with FSX and TH2G. My concern is if I accidentally open that window, the cursor problem seems to mess up the whole session. I have my 3 monitors set to native 4320x900 resolution. I'm not really familiar or experienced with the workings of displays and resolutions, but some posts suggest this problem is definitely related to wide monitors. Here are my specs if it is any help in solving this. Please let me know if any additional info is needed. Any solution will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Tom
Gateway FX6800-01e with Vista HP SP 2 64 bit; Intel Core i7 cpu 920A 2.67 GHZ.; 3.00 GB DDR3 Ram,; ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series; ATI HDMI Audio/Realtek High Def Audio; Gateway HD1900 19 Widescreen LCD Monitor; 1440x900 native; 16:10 Aspect Ratio

Yui · Post by **Yui** » 28 Aug 2009, 04:26

Get a fourth monitor for your 2D panels. I used to have that set up :) I haven't encountered a similar problem as yours. Maybe the culprit are the drivers. There's no other reason...I think. Try to run FSX with only one monitor first.

TomG628 · Post by **TomG628** » 29 Aug 2009, 05:15

Thanks for the help, Yui.
I have been flying FSX with one monitor until recently when I got the TH2G. It worked fine. As a matter of fact, I also got X-Plane 9 to try it out and it works fine too in both 2D and 3D. It's just that darn 2D mode in FSX. While in 3D mode, I tried to open the pedestal window and the cursor started going crazy again and framerates went way down. Ther real killer is that is the end of my performance for the rest of the session until I reboot FS and start over.

Is it possible to have the 3D virtual cockpit view in the surround configuration across the three monitors and when switching to 2D have the displays go back to single mode so that the display is restricted to single monitors? In other words, I could have the front cockpit view just in the center monitor, maybe a throttle quadrant in the left, fmc in the third or something like that?
Regards, Tom

CHriz6662 · Post by **CHriz6662** » 29 Aug 2009, 12:28

same problem here with FSX.

I bought TH2GO mainly for FSX and now i cant play it anymore, great.

2D Panels black
Flashing mouse cursor and halve of the frames
and the bug that i cant get 5040x1050 with the newest Nvidia drivers

unplayable

Matrox do something.

cu
chriz

Nosferatu05 · Post by **Nosferatu05** » 29 Aug 2009, 15:30

Did you try installing the older drivers and the latest matrox software/drivers? Also install SP 1+2 for FSX. It should work. But I dont use 2D panels since it looks to big I think.

TomG628 · Post by **TomG628** » 30 Aug 2009, 02:52

Thanks for helping guys. Chris, I thought it might be my ATI card since I'm hearing NVIDIA is better but if you have an NVIDIA I guess that's not the problem. What kind of monitors do you have?

I just updated my ATI driver as well as the Matrox driver and I have Acceleration (SP2) for FSX. Are you saying I should roll back to my older ATI driver and keep the new Matrox driver?
Regards,
Tom

dart74 · Post by **dart74** » 02 Sep 2009, 23:00

i had the same thing. uncheck AA in fsx and use graphix card for AA fixed it for me

TomG628 · Post by **TomG628** » 03 Sep 2009, 00:30

Thanks for the help, Dart74. I held my breath and turned AA off in FSX and enabled it in ATI. I also restarted my system and FSX but no luck. Still the same.
Someone also suggested that they heard there was a bug in FSX that caused the problem when Tool Tips was turned on. Unfortunately mine was already off. Hopefully there is still a solution out there cause with that flashing cursor and drop in performance I am on hold with using FSX. Thanks again. Tom

john bentley · Post by **john bentley** » 05 Sep 2009, 07:00

I emailed Matrox about this issue in June 2009.

From: [Me]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:12 AM
To: [Matrox technical Support]
Subject: Tech Support - Australia - General - Request ID: 19409

Using Microsoft Flight Simulator X can you get a workable 2D cockpit at 5040 X 1050? I have posted this question at http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/node/10355 Nobody as confirmed they can. Another user reports, like me, that they cannot. Thanks, ....

Their reply ....

From: [Matrox technical Support]
Date: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 23:49 AM

For game setting and optimization you are better off referring your question to the WSGF (as you did already), since we test games only to confirm triple screen support.

We do not test functionality and performance but try to educate the game developers on the product so the games would have native support for all the features in triples screen mode.

Regards,
Trpimir
MGI Technical Support Representative
Matrox Graphics Inc.

@Dart74 Can you confirm that Using Microsoft Flight Simulator X can you get a workable 2D cockpit at 5040 X 1050?

I have the three problems (perhaps from same cause) that TomG628 describes when using TH2G with a 2D cockpit:
* Mouse cursor flashes like crazy.
* Frame rates drop (to between 8 - 11 fps).
* The cockpit disappears leaving a black bottom half of the screen.

My current work around is to not use TH2G (just use independent/native screens driven by two graphics cards), start FSX in the middle screen, undock panels (throttle, GPS, etc), and drag them to the side screens.

TomG628 · Post by **TomG628** » 06 Sep 2009, 05:27

Hey guys, thanks for continuing to give some feedback and hanging in there with me on this problem. I couldn't wait to get this setup for FSX since seeing some demos and videos. When I first noticed the problem I thought "No problem, I'll just find a solution in one of the forums." Obviously that wasn't the case. I just can't understand why Microsoft hasn't noticed this issue before and hasn't published a solution or workaround since it seems others have experienced it as well, while others say they have no problems in 2D or 3D views.

I tried to go to the MS website and track down a solution, but all MS is concerned about is whether my program ID number is correct which I couldn't get it to recognize to begin with, then be told that I could always use my credit card for paid support.

I received the same reply when I contacted Matrox, that they are only concerned with their unit itself, and refered me to this website. As far as not using TH2G and using 2 cards, I paid over $300 for the darn thing, and sure cannot afford a second card right now. Besides, I got the TH2G for that added realism and peripheral view. Hopefully someone will read our thread here and come through with some good news in getting this thing to work right. I can only hope. Regards,
Tom

Nosferatu05 · Post by **Nosferatu05** » 06 Sep 2009, 10:49

Thanks for the help, Dart74. I held my breath and turned AA off in FSX and enabled it in ATI

Did you try turning off AA in FSX AND your ATI? So no AA is on.

john bentley · Post by **john bentley** » 06 Sep 2009, 16:21

As far as not using TH2G and using 2 cards, I paid over $300 for the darn thing, and sure cannot afford a second card right now. Besides, I got the TH2G for that added realism and peripheral view.

Like you and CHriz6662 I bought TH2GO mainly for FSX. FSX is heavily promoted on the Matrox site so I just assumed they worked perfectly together. Only after encountering this problem and returning to the matrox site did I notice that none of their FSX screenshots have a 2D cockpit. I share your disappointment. I feel mislead.

I'm not optimistic that there is a solution, nor will there be. Do you know that Microsoft has stopped all development on Flight Simulator, disbanding the development team?

I suspect, it is only speculation, the problem has to do with the separateness of the panels. TH2G can successfully stretch the main scene but fails to adjust the panels properly. Perhaps getting a panel editor out and manually adjusting the panels might work? Even if that worked I'm not sure it would fix the frame rate drop and wild cursor issues.

If you can endure the workaround I mentioned, having a 2D cockpit and scene on the centre window with panels undocked to the side screens, then you don't need a second graphics card for this. Just start up via TH2G as normal and resize the main window to the centre screen. (I haven't tested this).

Although disappointed with this mere workaround I console myself with the fact that a 22" widescreen is far superior to my previous 17" narrowscreen. Plus I can move the panels (throttles, GPS, ...) out of the way. And 50,000 people die each day from poverty. Well that's not "consoling" but at the very least I don't feel too hard done by.

I mentioned the second graphics card as my default mode is "Independent Mode", which does require a second card, which I use for development/office work. I switch from Independent mode to "TH2GO/Stretched" mode when I want to game. If you exclusively use "TH2GO/Stretched" mode then you don't need the second card.

Independent mode, with Ultramon, allows me to place the start menu on the centre screen and have each of the monitors with their own task bar, which helps to show where each minimized window dwells.

By the way, if you work (as opposed to gaming) in either mode I highly recommend gridmove. Gridmove does much more than Matrox PowerDesk (Desktop divider) or NVIDIA Desktop Manager (User Interface > gridlines). I have created some grids for three screens, in either mode, which I hope to get around posting at some point.

TomG628 · Post by **TomG628** » 07 Sep 2009, 05:23

Well guys, the mystery deepens. I did some more experimenting, and first of all, I tried disabling AA in both the sim and the card per the suggestion above and there was no difference. I also thought I'd just try out the Direct X preview to see if it made an affect and it was a total disaster. The sim started up with only my center screen as if I only had the one monitor, and the instrument panel was nothing but many distorted gray lines. I then went back to normal Direct X 9 and things were back to normal with the original same wild cursor/black panel wide view.

I took up the Flight1 Cessna telling myself I would ignore that 2D front view, and just enjoy a 3D flight over Friday Harbor. It was great until I opened the panel that allows you to pick the other mini panels - radio stack, fuel selector, gps, etc. It popped up in a larger than normal state, and that started the cursor up again, and the performance was shot. It isn't even just the forward view that is affected,
I can't even select a 2D drop down panel in the 3D window!! :( This can't be normal cause even with the 3D window open, I have to be able to open some of the subpanels and I can't even do that.

I wish someone out there from Microsoft could step in here with some advice.

John, thanks for the detailed post. You mention that there might not be a solution, but I still wonder why there are probably many out there with the TH2G 3 widescreen monitor setup that are not having any problems. Some even posted in some other forums saying so. I had made up my mind that I would just learn to live with things as they are, and learn to try to use just the 3D widescreen window, until I realized I couldn't even open a subpanel without spoiling things. Regards, Tom

john bentley · Post by **john bentley** » 07 Sep 2009, 07:23

I still wonder why there are probably many out there with the TH2G 3 widescreen monitor setup that are not having any problems. Some even posted in some other forums saying so.

... but when you push them for details it turns out they don't use the 2D cockpit at 5040 X 1050. If you or anyone can tell me that they do have a 2D cockpit working in Surround then at least we could know it is possible.

From memory I too get performance problems when using virtual cockit view and open up a panel (eg Radio Stack). These panels generally appear stretched. I'd have to confirm that though.

Virtual cockpit is great for taking in the scene and for switching to outside view. However the most joy for me is in learning about and using the instruments which you can only access clearly from a 2D view.

Supertaff · Post by **Supertaff** » 08 Sep 2009, 23:49

Just tried FSX on my set up and have encoutered exactly the smae problem as mentioned abov with no 2d view. Thebest I can get is to press the W key which gives partial system details.

Hope someone out there can find a fix for this.

Taff

TomG628 · Post by **TomG628** » 09 Sep 2009, 01:48

John and Taff,
How do you use FSX then? I could live with the lack of a panel in the 2D view as long as I could access everything from the 3D. Unfortunately, I can't afford to lose those precious fps numbers. Once they are down to about 20 there isn't much leeway 'till I'm bordering on the low teens or worse. When that cursor starts flashing when I open a panel, something is happening in the system that causes resources to plummet. Probably it is trying to constantly access the drive by indication of the spinning circle and flashing arrow. Trying to setup the Level D 767 was a nightmare. I tried not to go near the main 2D panels as nice as they are, but as soon as I clicked on the throttle quadrant, that was it. Wild cursor and framerates cut in half.
This just can't be normal or a small thing I have been waiting for this setup for about 3 years now and have heard a lot about the TripleHead and FSX. I'm surprised no workaround of fix has been mentioned. Tom

Nosferatu05 · Post by **Nosferatu05** » 09 Sep 2009, 04:58

Well. I am not an expert in FSX but I flew all machines in 3D cockpit since the 2D doenst look good anyway. I saw it working buut not on 5040x1050. Its some month ago anyway...

Why you want to play in 2D? I just really want to know :)

TomG628 · Post by **TomG628** » 09 Sep 2009, 21:27

I think you misunderstood me. I don't care about the 2D view itself. I am fine with the 3D view and use it most of the time anyway. I can live without the 2D forward view. (My stretched view is 4320x900.)
My problem goes beyond that. If I am in the 3D view, I can't select any subpanels (which I assume are 2D panels) either. They open up all stretched out and have to be resized, and the cursor thing starts up and performance is cut in half.
I just did some more experimenting. In the default Cessna with the G1000, while in 3D view, I can select some of the subpanels (Shift key and 1-9), but as soon as I select the wrong one, its like stepping on a landmine. The cursor starts and I have to reboot to get out of it. With the Level D 767, every panel I try to bring down while in 3D crashes the session. I can't even bring down the overhead panel (Shift/5) at all.
I want to know how I can continue to use the sim in 3D and be able to use the radio stack, GPS, Throttle Quadrant, etc. without ruining my session. Regards, Tom

burnsdm · Post by **burnsdm** » 13 Sep 2009, 21:59

I've just setup th2g on 3 x 32 inch screens vista 64bit

I had to turn off ATI crossfire on my system when running FSX as I was getting the same sort of issues as this original poster in the thread. After turning it off in ATI catalyst options FSX was like a new program frame rate wise so that's my workaround FSX wise.

Bezel wise I have all latest firmware and drivers from Matrox but no option to setup the bezel program/feature.

Any suggestions welcome....

Dave.

My system:
Asus P6T SE X58 Chipset Motherboard
Core i7 920 Overclocked to up to 3.8GHz
Akasa Nero CPU Cooler
6GB DDR3 1600MHz Memory
LG Blue Ray / HD-DVD Combo Drive
Dual Ati Radeon 4890 1GB Cards in Crossfire
850W Cooler Master M850 Modular PSU
Creative X-Fi Xtreme Audio Sound Card
Vista Home Premium 64 bit

john bentley · Post by **john bentley** » 14 Sep 2009, 03:01

TomG628,

John and Taff, How do you use FSX then?

You missed parts of my previous posts ..

My current work around is to not use TH2G (just use independent/native screens driven by two graphics cards), start FSX in the middle screen, undock panels (throttle, GPS, etc), and drag them to the side screens. ... Although disappointed with this mere workaround I console myself with the fact that a 22" widescreen is far superior to my previous 17" narrowscreen. Plus I can move the panels (throttles, GPS, ...) out of the way.

Nosferatu05,

Why you [TomG638] want to play in 2D? I just really want to know

There seems to two FS groups. Those that prefer to use 3D view exclusively (perhaps opening up 2D sub panels at times) and those that prefer to use 2D view mostly. Each group is baffled by the other.

I prefer to use 2D mostly because in 3D it is difficult to see (and manipulate via mouse clicks) intricate parts of the instruments.

Perhaps, crudely, there are those that are after a:
* Complete understanding of aviation systems and flying (instruments, procedures, flight rules, etc); versus
* Mere basic understanding and a bit of a cruise around, enjoying the view, etc?

Each is a legitimate way to value FS. Perhaps, then, the former will go for 2D the later will go for 3D?

Widescreen Gaming Forum