Sound Card

Soduka · Post by **Soduka** » 12 Jul 2008, 04:56

Is it worth it to get one? Is the quality difference noticeable from on board sound? If so, what is a good pick?

BlueMak · Post by **BlueMak** » 12 Jul 2008, 09:18

Depends on the sound cards involved, both onboard and seperate.

If you are just playing games and watching movies, then definitely it doesn't matter much if at all. Make sure the onboard solution is a "high definition" one (at least for Realtek solutions) with 7 channels support and you get a superb sound solution.

I have an X-Fi from Creative and an onboard Realtek HD with the 885 codec and the difference is not that big to matter. In fact I have decided to give up on my X-Fi due to constant bugs in the software or hardware due to Creative not being able to program anything properly since the 90s.

So, if you have an onboard solution with 8 channels support (7.1), 24bit audio+, then you should be ok as long as you also use the latest available drivers from the audio solution's manufacturer.

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 12 Jul 2008, 11:35

I've abandoned dedicated sound for the time being. Auzentech are just rebadged Creative stuff, and Creative seem to be using Vista as an excuse to both stiff their customers and be lazy.

And, frankly, modern integrated audio is pretty good.

Post by **scavvenjahh** » 12 Jul 2008, 12:36

-What are your typical sound needs/usages ?
-What does not give you entire satisfaction in your current sound experience ?
-Most importantly, what output devices do you use ? Buying an expensive sound board to go with cheap desktop speakers and/or listen to 128k MP3 wouldn't make sense.

I for one I'm happy with my Creative stuff ;) (X-Fi Elite Pro, T40 speakers)

I love EAX and the richness it brings to sound in games, too bad EAX5 w/ 128 channels never really came to life. Many games are EAX 4 (aka EAX Advanced HD) which means you get the best audio experience with the lowest CPU usage possible using an EAX 4 capable card. On the other hand, integrated sound chips don't totally suck, so it's really up to you and what you think you're missing.

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 13 Jul 2008, 00:57

There's no way anyone's going to convince me ANY onboard audio modern or not is equal to or anywhere near even a moderately priced well made sound card. In fact although the newer onboard chips have HD audio, they have LESS dynamic range in the high end. My friend's Realtek AC/97 HD onboard for instance doesn't even go as high as my old analog Realtek AC/97 on my 4 yr old MSI MB. It's cuts off 1000 Hz lower than mine.

That is only referring to the core sound quality, then you have the fact that any decent sound card DSP, esp the VIA Envy many have, is WAY better than any onboard chip will have. Add to that the fact that you don't get multiple high capacity capacitors for deep, tight bass and midrange and you begin to get the picture.

I paid only $69 for my M-Audio Revolution 5.1 card 3.5 yrs ago which hit the market about 4 yrs ago and it's still THE best sound card I've heard in it's price range. Esp considering it has large slit foil capacitors rather than small solid states ones which are cooler and last longer but sound more digital lacking warmth and realism in the bass and midrange.

You will also get noticeably more THD (total harmonic distortion) resulting in a lower signal to noise ratio (more noise in the signal) in any onboard sound. In fact some of the newer high tech games don't work well with some onboard sound chips.

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 13 Jul 2008, 01:53

@Frag, I dont think anyones saying onboard is just as good as a discreet card. We are saying for the average person onboard is probably fine. Remember a HUGE number of people buy 128kbps songs from iTunes for example.

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 13 Jul 2008, 02:20

I realize the music market has been watered down for years, but I thought in a Widescreen Gaming forum where many members diligently cut their build budgets to the bone in order to afford such things as large WS displays the appropriate thing to do was point out the minuses of onboard audio.

It's one thing if you start out with that to eventually upgrade to a sound card, but if you plan a build with it as an afterthought prioritizing say SLI or Crossfire instead, then you may not actually have room to even install such a thing, and it does make a big difference without having to break the bank.

This is the closest thing I can find now to what I have, though mine is 109SNR and I'm not sure this one is even 5.1 capable. In fact I can't even find internal sound cards on M-Audio's site anymore so I don't know if they still make them.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829121120

Sorry for the long sentences. LOL

skeeder · Post by **skeeder** » 13 Jul 2008, 18:43

I have been to the otherside of the sound thing. I will say this...I would say get one as long as you want nicer sound but don't want EAX2 or something retarded. I've had a Creative card and they are junk. Just get an Chaintech AV710 for music or something simular. Its a digital pure-bitrate out--thats all you need for the "audiophile" world...

It would minimize hissing from onboard. But then again I'm using onboard for my HTPC and it seems to do well to my reciever...:)

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 14 Jul 2008, 00:07

I'm not sure those Chaintechs are even available anymore Skeeder, I don't even see them on Ebay. Here's another cheapie with the Envy24 chip. It's only 16 bit though.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829126004

After further searching I found one like I have though.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0002YK9SW/ref=dp_olp_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1215989095&sr=8-4

Soduka · Post by **Soduka** » 14 Jul 2008, 02:51

My headset is USB and no card has USB slots, I am to suppose it doesn't matter?

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 14 Jul 2008, 06:35

Try using a USB to PS2 adapter if you have a spare PS2 port. There are mini USB to 3.5mm adapters, but good luck finding a USB to 3.5mm adapter, esp in USB female to 3.5mm male configuration.

Mesh · Post by **Mesh** » 14 Jul 2008, 11:15

Tsk tsk, speak not of things you know nothing about.

Headphones with a usb connector instead of the typical 3.5mm jack tend to have a usb sound card built in, just plug it into a usb port.

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 14 Jul 2008, 18:43

Tsk tsk, speak not of things you know nothing about.

Headphones with a usb connector instead of the typical 3.5mm jack tend to have a usb sound card built in, just plug it into a usb port.

I know that asshole, he made it sound like he didn't even have a USB port to plug it into. You need to get off that I'm a genius fantasy Mesh and come down to Earth. :roll:

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 14 Jul 2008, 18:58

Be courteous, please. ;) Personal attacks aren't needed.

skeeder · Post by **skeeder** » 14 Jul 2008, 19:29

very true. That card hasn't been made for a while. M-Audio makes a good effort if EMU is too rich for your taste...

USB headphones have the DAC and amp inside the headphone itself. its a great (cheap) way to get ride of distortion on the speakers themselves. But is also not as high quality as other headphones.

Take what I say with a grain of salt...not everyone (like me) has owned $300 headphones with DAC's, and headphone Amps.

Mesh · Post by **Mesh** » 14 Jul 2008, 23:08

Paradigm Shifter, I'm sorry, it was in the wee hours of the morning and I couldn't resist.

Besides, FM has sent plenty of 'things to shovel' my way in the past, hard not to do the same.

I'll edit the post if you want.

Post by **scavvenjahh** » 15 Jul 2008, 09:40

Soduka has a headset, so he's probably interested primarily in a soundcard for games, so M-Audio/EMU stuff would be a bit off anyway...

Mesh · Post by **Mesh** » 15 Jul 2008, 11:24

I happen to have both a creative x-fi and a sondigo callisto which could be considered the 2 extremes of audio cards. The x-fi being the 'everything including the kitchen sink' model while the callisto is the spartan 'only what is needed' model.

Personnally, I prefer the callisto.

No driver problems, no audio glitches due to poorly coded pci routines and best of all, it just works.

Cpu usage isn't really that different between the 2 either. I get maybe 5% tops with the callisto and it's on an older x2 cpu too.

The money you save from buying something like creative's or any other decent pci sound card can be put to better use in a cpu or memory anyways.

Post by **scavvenjahh** » 15 Jul 2008, 17:07

This is not the "Creative or not Creative" thread, so it'd be more interesting to know why you favor a 'spartan' card over your mobo's sound chip ;)

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 15 Jul 2008, 18:59

...he's probably interested primarily in a soundcard for games, so M-Audio/EMU stuff would be a bit off anyway...

I've heard many make comments like this, but I've yet to see one that does actually try an M-Audio for gaming. It's a very good card for any use and I've never had driver problems with it. In fact the only time I have any audio problems at all is in games that have audio issues, like DiRT and GRID's poor 5.1 support for example.

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