why people get insane headshots in TF2?

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 10 Jul 2008, 05:36

Yeah its pretty bad, in CS:S it used to be HORRIBLE. Its still pretty bad with lag compensation on, theres alot of running around a corner and then dieing because they shot your legging model.

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » 10 Jul 2008, 07:07

So any client can change the variable so that they can shoot the player model instead of the hitbox?

infernus · Post by **infernus** » 10 Jul 2008, 15:37

Wow, that was really helpful. Let's see if I can hit something worth a damn now. D:

Mergatroid · Post by **Mergatroid** » 10 Jul 2008, 16:05

erm, wait. I thought lag compensation being on was the default, meaning they would have to hit the model anyway. What's the problem?

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 10 Jul 2008, 19:09

Huh, that might explain why some of my well-aimed shots in fact miss. I should be be leading a sideways-moving target by 2 feet instead of 2 inches! That would be if lag compensation if off, right? With lag-comp on, aim for the model.

DaFox, you meant the lagging hitbox, right? I'm still a little confused.

Can anyone offer more technical advice on this?

BlueMak · Post by **BlueMak** » 10 Jul 2008, 19:36

Interesting. To me it (video since I don't have the game) looks like with lag compensation ON then the games makes it so that you need to aim ahead of the moving enemy since the game takes into consideration lag in game. And when you turn it OFF then it only counts shots at the model. The problem with having it OFF though seems to be that if there is indeed lag then you won't hit shit.

Cynagen · Post by **Cynagen** » 10 Jul 2008, 22:16

Interesting. To me it (video since I don't have the game) looks like with lag compensation ON then the games makes it so that you need to aim ahead of the moving enemy since the game takes into consideration lag in game. And when you turn it OFF then it only counts shots at the model. The problem with having it OFF though seems to be that if there is indeed lag then you won't hit shit.

The lag compensation should work both ways. When you're lagging horribly, then the hitboxes should be BEHIND the model. For those of us moving FASTER than everyone else (like me on the WSGF TF2 server ~5ms ping) then the hitboxes are ahead to make the game even handed. I should turn lag compensation off so that way I have to hit your models for damage rather than some invisible, nearly impossible to hit hitbox.

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 10 Jul 2008, 22:16

Huh, that might explain why some of my well-aimed shots in fact miss. I should be be leading a sideways-moving target by 2 feet instead of 2 inches! That would be if lag compensation if off, right? With lag-comp on, aim for the model.

DaFox, you meant the lagging hitbox, right? I'm still a little confused.

Can anyone offer more technical advice on this?

No the hitbox does not lag, The model always lags behind the hitbox. So if lag compensation is ON and you run around a corner, your camera view and hitbox will be around the corner, and you may think your safe but they can still shoot your lagging model that has not turned the corner yet.

I dont see how hard it is to sync up the model with the hitbox though. :roll: I mean if the other clients know where your hitbox is wouldn't it just be easier to always have the model in the same place?

Post by **Ryom** » 10 Jul 2008, 23:26

Huh, that might explain
I dont see how hard it is to sync up the model with the hitbox though. :roll: I mean if the other clients know where your hitbox is wouldn't it just be easier to always have the model in the same place?

Everyone has different pings and therefore see's the model in different places. The server tells them AFTER the shot where the hitbox was and if it's a big difference your target (or you!) will get that JERKED VIEW effect as they sync to register the shot.

Lag compensation should be on, which it is by default.

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 11 Jul 2008, 00:16

OK. I should leave LC on. Got it.

Still confused about aiming. If my ping averages 50-150, where should I be aiming? Instead of mentally calculating distance, gravity, projectile speed, etc., should I be looking at other players' pings and try to figure out hitboxes? :?:

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 11 Jul 2008, 00:48

OK. I should leave LC on. Got it.

Still confused about aiming. If my ping averages 50-150, where should I be aiming? Instead of mentally calculating distance, gravity, projectile speed, etc., should I be looking at other players' pings and try to figure out hitboxes? :?:

With lag compensation on you should not be thinking about too much. TF2 isnt a realistic game by any means, the way to be the best is stand in the right place and move around while aiming at the model and shooting like a mad man :P

Unless your using the rocketlauncher, thats when you can start thinking about things ;)

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 11 Jul 2008, 01:25

OK. Will increase Mad-Man factor by 10 :lol:

Soldier and Demoman are my primary classes, though, so I guess I still need to think on occasion. :(

Post by **Ryom** » 11 Jul 2008, 02:48

You should be aiming at the model where you want to hit it. With server side registration there is no definitive way to aim for a sure hit if the server considers your opponents position data as the more accurate information to use. The only way to aim is to aim where you think you should and hope that the server agrees with your positioning data instead of your opponents.

In Quake3, the netcode is lagged (ever hear of the 'Unlagged' mod for Q3? It replaces Q3's netcode with something similar to Source's netcode) while source's netcode is Unlagged. You need to compensate for lag by hand in Q3 (lead your target).

BUT! When everyone's ping is both low (less than 50) and also STEADY (not fluctuating more than a few ms), Q3 feels more accurate and there are no funny instances of "shot around the corner" that you get with unlagged code. However, when your ping and your opponents ping are very different, and unsteady, then unlagged netcode is more "fair" all around.

Q3's lagged netcode has a better feel to it when everything is perfect (low and steady pings) but Sources unlagged netcode is more fair to laggy players when things aren't perfect, but you wind up with wonky situations that will leave you wanting to rip your hair out, but are in fact, technically correct.

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 11 Jul 2008, 08:42

Well thanks to all for the tips. I guess I'll keep playing it the way I have been. Aim at the model, lead with rockets/stickies, etc.

Of course, I could always resort to the age-old proverb:

"When in doubt, build a sentry." :D

skeeder · Post by **skeeder** » 11 Jul 2008, 20:55

I've taken up the task of trying to unlock the newer pyro guns, but...I see why this is now very annoying, I played a ton of CODUO and rifles only, sniper is a strong class for me! For some reason it was always off, now I know. What is Valve going to do to fix this?

JohnnyWakko · Post by **JohnnyWakko** » 11 Jul 2008, 23:26

No friggin wonder it was so hard to get into this game coming from a twitch shooter (UT2K4) and doing insane shots, to TF2 and never friggin hitting ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by **Ryom** » 11 Jul 2008, 23:27

Fix what? If you are referring to the hitboxes shown in the video, scroll down and read the rest of the first page. Everything is working as Valve intends it to. It can be very frustrating at times though, I will admit :)

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