over clocking q6600 2.4

Video cards, monitors, CPUs and the like
erikjanneman
Posts: 123
Joined: 02 Aug 2009, 17:43

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by erikjanneman »

i will try the 64bit first before windows 7
i had vista and ran into lots of compatibility issues with games

i want to avoid that with windows 7


W7 works quite well with games actually. I'm running W7x64 atm. All games have worked for me so far. (even older ones).

Some games do give me a bit of trouble, but not sure if it's due to widescreen or the new processor (hyperthreading), or w7. But i've always been able to correct it after some googling (and help from this forum), and i'm no computer whiz or anything.
whismerhill
Posts: 760
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 22:17

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by whismerhill »

allright people i have another tech question for you

i read on another forum that i would need a true 64bit OS in order for the gtx 275 1792mb to run at full potential

is this true or not?
i have a 32bit xp now, but could upgrade if need be

headaches included, installing evrything from scratch :?

that's not true.

if you use a 32bit OS it can only address 3GB ram (talking about vista and XP here).

so the graphics card memory would take 1792 of the 3064 (or whatever it is)... leaving you like 1.3GB of ram. plus the page file.

that's wrong

[quote]if you use a 32bit OS it can only address 3GB ram (talking about vista and XP here).

so the graphics card memory would take 1792 of the 3064 (or whatever it is)... leaving you like 1.3GB of ram. plus the page file.

This is interesting. Partly because it's widely considered 100% accurate... and yet for some reason it isn't always.

I've got 4GB of RAM in an XP system. When I had a 512MB 8800GT installed, maximum available RAM was 3.25GB. I pulled the 8800GT and installed a 1GB Radeon 4850, maximum available RAM 3.25GB. Out of interest, I pulled that card too and stuffed in an old 2MB PCI Rage II card... maximum available RAM 3.25GB. PAE extensions are not enabled.

By the logic of subtracting RAM... I should not be seeing 3.25GB of RAM with the 1GB 4850 installed. It should be at most 3GB, and likely 2.25GB. And yet I am seeing 3.25GB - the same amount as with a 512MB card, or a 2MB card. The system is perfectly stable and happy...

so if i have 4 gig in my system
using xp 32 bit, games are played with only 3 gig?

best thing is to upgrade to 64bit os and the gtx will use all its and system memory?

On paper, a 32-bit OS can only address a maximum of 4GB of memory. That is system RAM and graphics RAM.


that's not completely the truth. however the point about microsoft is good, though graphics RAM has nothing to do with that.

ok now that I have said that the total story is a bit long so I'll make another post right after this one.
whismerhill
Posts: 760
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 22:17

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by whismerhill »

ok first

-what's the difference between a 64 bit OS and a 32 bit OS?
the main point is that a 64 bit OS with a 64 bit able processor can address more memory than a 32 bit OS

-how limited is a 32 bit OS on the memory side?
a 32 bit OS can address up to 4GB of addressable memory
but this addressable memory is absolutely not equal to physical memory.


In fact there is a bunch of reserved memory addresses for communicating with devices and the like, which means less memory addresses available for addressing physical memory. (which means less than your physical memory available for apps & games...)

so 1st, there's absolutely no correlation between the amount of video memory and available physical memory
however any device might reserve some...

2nd PAE allows to expand the addressable memory on 32bit OSes, though microsoft disabled that ability for WinXP even if PAE is activated for other purposes.

In practice, on winXP 32 bits you will never have more than 3.0 to 3.5 GB of available physical memory, whatever is your amount of physical memory. However, I will say it again, this does not influence video memory at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366796%28VS.85%29.aspx
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888137


Bottom line, if you got more than 3GB of memory you should get a 64 bit OS for using it all.
whismerhill
Posts: 760
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 22:17

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by whismerhill »

also another limitation of 32 bit OSes is that applications are limited to 2GB each. Though there is a way to increase this to 3GB if the application supports it (that's called LAA http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/Expand_Memory_of_32-bit_App_-_Microsoft_4GT-_6204.pdf )

edit: even more info here :
Memory Support and Windows Operating Systems
Using /LARGEADDRESSAWARE on 64-bit Windows for 32-bit programs
The oft-misunderstood /3GB switch
Why can't I see all of the 4GB of RAM in my machine? (there's also a nice little drawing to show things.)

edit2: if you still don't believe me (which you shouldn't if you took time to read official msdn blog articles & rest of links) you might want to know that with my GTX285 2GB I get more than 3GB available memory on XP32
whismerhill
Posts: 760
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 22:17

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by whismerhill »

another good read : Gaming In 64-Bit: Tom's Tests, Microsoft Weighs In : Introduction

though if you begin to read it, you should really read it all from page 1 to conclusion, since some "critical" information is distributed through all pages, and some of the first pages could let you think some things which are cleared out after ...
User avatar
Gilly
Insiders
Insiders
Posts: 1172
Joined: 15 Apr 2005, 23:27

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by Gilly »

yeah i made a typo i meant to put 4096.

but i dont quite think it is quite as cut and dry or consistent as you insist Whismer.

My gfs machine should have 4096-512-x. when she had her old 256MB card it was slightly higher than it is now, but not 256MB different

some guy here....

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/page-258883_15_0.html

2x 512MB graphics cards in SLI, 4GB ram and a 32bit XP OS and he gets 2GB RAM aparently. when he removes a card a lot of memory returns.

im not saying your wrong, what i was trying to say was it might be a problem depending on what game you are running. i have 0 problems, i run XP x64, sometimes when running 2 accounts on WoW with a lot of stuff open i get near 3GB used ram according to task man, depening what you are doing, with nearly 2GB graphics ram and the so called "4gb limit" on 32bit os (before you factor in PAE) might be "near the limit" as the man in the interview on the Tomshardware link said.

and as for no correlation... a 1792MB gpu will not only reseve 2MB to play nicely with the rest of the system
P8Z68-V Pro | 2600K | HR02 | HD5850 | 2x4GB Vengeance LP | 128GB M4 + 6TB | X-Fi > HD595 | AX850 | Tai Chi | PB278Q | G110 + Deathadder 2013
P8Z77-V | 3570K | Mugen 2 | HD5850 | 2x4GB Vengeance LP | 500GB | X-750 | Fractal R3 | U2212HM | G110 + G400
P8H77-I | G860 | 4650 | 2x2GB XMS | 320GB | CX500 | Prodigy | T22B350EW | MX518
DC3217IYE | 1x4GB Vengeance | 64GB M4 | TX-42VT20E
2Air
Posts: 36
Joined: 29 Jul 2009, 20:53

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by 2Air »

@ whismerhill:

if you say "In practice, on winXP 32 bits you will never have more than 3.0 to 3.5 GB of available physical memory, whatever is your amount of physical memory. However, I will say it again, this does not influence video memory at all."

does that mean that with my win xp 32bit version, which has 4 gig ram, i would play games at 3 to 3.5 gig PLUS my 1792mb from the vidcard?

i'm thinking i shouldn't upgrade to 64bit os at all then
User avatar
DaFox
Posts: 2356
Joined: 14 Nov 2006, 15:48

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by DaFox »

@ whismerhill:

if you say "In practice, on winXP 32 bits you will never have more than 3.0 to 3.5 GB of available physical memory, whatever is your amount of physical memory. However, I will say it again, this does not influence video memory at all."

does that mean that with my win xp 32bit version, which has 4 gig ram, i would play games at 3 to 3.5 gig PLUS my 1792mb from the vidcard?

i'm thinking i shouldn't upgrade to 64bit os at all then


There is no reason not to upgrade to a 64bit OS, namely Windows 7 RTM at this time.
2Air
Posts: 36
Joined: 29 Jul 2009, 20:53

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by 2Air »

all things considering
do you think i'm bottlenecking my system if i put a gtx275 1792mb card in to this system:

intel core 2 quad Q6600 2.4ghz
MSI P35 Neo-FI
Antec Sonata III Atx Case 500Watt Earthwatts
Western digital 320 gig SATA II
GEIL 2x2048 DDR2 800 Ultra dual channel
whismerhill
Posts: 760
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 22:17

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by whismerhill »

@ whismerhill:

if you say "In practice, on winXP 32 bits you will never have more than 3.0 to 3.5 GB of available physical memory, whatever is your amount of physical memory. However, I will say it again, this does not influence video memory at all."

does that mean that with my win xp 32bit version, which has 4 gig ram, i would play games at 3 to 3.5 gig PLUS my 1792mb from the vidcard?

i'm thinking i shouldn't upgrade to 64bit os at all then


no video memory & main memory are two completely different thing which don't add up.
- video memory is just for the graphic card and store what should be displayed on screen and other data which will be processed by the graphic card. (like textures for example)
-main memory is for everything else.

The 1792mb are just for the vidcard

The 3~3.5GB are used for: Windows, caches, any launched application (like antivirus or browser for example) and games.

Though any single application can't access more than 2GB of data unless it's programmed for it AND that the /3GB switch is enabled in windows (only for windows XP PRO or Media center editions)

if you really really don't want Windows se7en 64 bit then windows XP 64 bits is also an option.
whismerhill
Posts: 760
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 22:17

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by whismerhill »

all things considering
do you think i'm bottlenecking my system if i put a gtx275 1792mb card in to this system
short answer : no ;)
2Air
Posts: 36
Joined: 29 Jul 2009, 20:53

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by 2Air »

so is xp 32bit isn't it?
even with the 1792mb version
whismerhill
Posts: 760
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 22:17

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by whismerhill »

yeah i made a typo i meant to put 4096.

but i dont quite think it is quite as cut and dry or consistent as you insist Whismer.

My gfs machine should have 4096-512-x. when she had her old 256MB card it was slightly higher than it is now, but not 256MB different

some guy here....

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/page-258883_15_0.html

2x 512MB graphics cards in SLI, 4GB ram and a 32bit XP OS and he gets 2GB RAM aparently. when he removes a card a lot of memory returns.

im not saying your wrong, what i was trying to say was it might be a problem depending on what game you are running. i have 0 problems, i run XP x64, sometimes when running 2 accounts on WoW with a lot of stuff open i get near 3GB used ram according to task man, depening what you are doing, with nearly 2GB graphics ram and the so called "4gb limit" on 32bit os (before you factor in PAE) might be "near the limit" as the man in the interview on the Tomshardware link said.

and as for no correlation... a 1792MB gpu will not only reseve 2MB to play nicely with the rest of the system


it is exactly as I said, if you don't believe me read the microsoft technical titbits they explain it all, though I admit that when I said between 3 to 3.5 GB, I should have said "in the general case", with a lot of devices (like SLI, QuadSLI ... but not limited to gfx cards) you can go below that

SLI means two gfx card which means each single one will reserve memory addresses. I don't know him or his computer but you shall not believe what everyone says on the internet without proofs.

I am a tech guy, I answer people : basic story :

Code: Select all

user - hello I didn't do anything and my computer doesn't work

   me - ok let's see what happens, so is your computer on ?
   user - no
   me - ok turn it on...
   me - ok do you see something ?
   user - no
   me - you mean there's absolutely nothing displayed on your screen?
   user - well there this white text tidbit but the rest is black.
   me - ok can you tell me what's written here ?
   user with horrible accent - hum "please insert bootable floppy and press a key"
   me - ok, I see what it is
   me - could you please remove the floppy disk from the floppy drive ?
   user - there's no floppy in there
   me - really ?
   user - yeah I didn't do anything at all
   me - ok so you didn't put any floppy in there but perhaps someone else could ?
   user - no that's not possible I'm the only one using this computer.
   me - still, I would like you to press the button on the side of the floppy drive, maybe there's a malfunction which prevents your computer from running properly
   user - ok ....

Then the phone hangs abruptly as soon as he pressed that button, because he found a floppy in the drive which prevented his computer from starting and he was too ashamed to admit he was wrong ...
which is why I had to "lie" to get him to do what I wanted.

you may think it's a popular joke but it's not, I lived it and I talked to that guy personally.

bottom line, "bullshit talk" on the internet is not rare
plus as long as you're not in front of his computer you can't really say.

EDIT: this guy either have a lot of devices, but he don't say the real amounts nor what's in the computer, so it's difficult to say but you might want to know that some options in the BIOS control how memory is handled and if "memory remap" is enabled 2GB could be the highest the OS would go on a 32 bit system

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605
whismerhill
Posts: 760
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 22:17

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by whismerhill »

so is xp 32bit isn't it?
even with the 1792mb version

xp 32bit limits your maximum available amount of ram...
is it a bottleneck ? probably not
though depending on what you use your computer for, it could be...
for example "Supreme Commander" uses a lot of RAM on 82km² maps with high unit limits & lots of players, enough to get past my 4GB of available memory on XP64 and crash. This is an example though and not the general case !!!
2Air
Posts: 36
Joined: 29 Jul 2009, 20:53

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by 2Air »

i hope i'm not being a pain to anyone
but what about oc'ing my cpu to about 3.0mhz

that would help as well i suppose
are there any good guided how to do that?
i've googled but keep getting forum threads, instead of the actual how to's


thx for all ur help
whismerhill
Posts: 760
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 22:17

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by whismerhill »

i hope i'm not being a pain to anyone
but what about oc'ing my cpu to about 3.0mhz

that would help as well i suppose
are there any good guided how to do that?
i've googled but keep getting forum threads, instead of the actual how to's


thx for all ur help

sorry but I won't give you any links myself
why ?
because your knowledge about computers is a bit limited you need to learn more by yourself, then we could talk about overclocking your CPU.
you need to search & read for hours & days.

overclocking is a risky business although overclocking a Core2 to 3.0Ghz is easy enough, you still run the risk to put the wrong setting in the wrong place & break your computer.
If anyone wants to give you links, it's fine by me, but I won't do it.
2Air
Posts: 36
Joined: 29 Jul 2009, 20:53

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by 2Air »

fair enough!
i can't say thans enough for the help and info you (all) have given already!

:wink:
User avatar
Paradigm Shifter
Editors
Editors
Posts: 5706
Joined: 14 Oct 2003, 13:52

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by Paradigm Shifter »

no video memory & main memory are two completely different thing which don't add up.
- video memory is just for the graphic card and store what should be displayed on screen and other data which will be processed by the graphic card. (like textures for example)
-main memory is for everything else.

Yes.

This doesn't alter the fact that a 32-bit OS can only address 4GB of memory.

The problem is, many people take 'memory' to mean 'RAM'. When referring to the 4GB limit, 'memory' is the total addressable memory space and not just the RAM installed. It’s a total made up of system RAM, graphics RAM, PCI memory range, ACPI and a few other bits and pieces. Every device on or plugged into the motherboard needs a memory addressable space in order to operate.

'Internet wisdom' seems to have created the myth that on a 32-bit OS, you can take that 4GB, subtract the amount of RAM on the graphics card, and that will give you RAM available for use. The problem is... it worked for some of the 256MB cards back when AGP was dominant - take 4GB, subtract 256MB, you end up with 3.75GB of usable RAM (I tried this with an Asus A8V board once). I don't know what tricks nVidia and ATi have used for being able to address gigabytes of memory on their cards without mapping each bit to the 32-bit total addressable memory space, but it's a neat one... the picture is further muddied by SLI and CrossFire, which seem to obey some dark rules that no one quite understands when it comes to treatment of addressable memory - since the contents of the VRAM is mirrored in each set of GPU memory... it should on paper at least, be treated as one set of memory... almost like RAID1. For some reason... it isn't. I've not read enough about the technicalities of the two techs to know.

However, this is getting out of the remit of the original discussion and will result in technical details that will likely leave 2Air scratching his or her head even less certain of which choice s/he should be making with respect to Operating System. :)

if you really really don't want Windows se7en 64 bit then windows XP 64 bits is also an option.

Windows XP 64-bit is only an option if you want a lot of headaches. Drivers for it are often few and far between (printers, scanners etc frequently don't have drivers) and those that do exist are flaky and some are missing features (I'm thinking of Creative here...)

I was running XP64 for a while for technical reasons... and if I could have got my hands on the source code for the program I was using and compiled it in 64-bit linux... I would have done. I have never had any other incarnation of Windows give me that many headaches - even when I was looking after PCs running Windows ME.

In short, XP64 isn't really an option. There is no reason to avoid Windows 7 64-bit - I've been using it since public beta and it works great. Not found anything that doesn't like it yet. It's the first time I've ever installed an OS and not needed to install one single driver. I updated the ATi drivers and installed Catalyst Control Centre (despite how much I dislike it...) but it wasn't necessary to do that to get games running happily.
whismerhill
Posts: 760
Joined: 28 Jun 2009, 22:17

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by whismerhill »

...

XP64 is used by a bunch of people on matbe.com without any kind of problems it really depends on what you do and what peripherals you have
XP64 uses Win2k3 64 kernel, so Win2k3 drivers are sometimes an option too... Anyway, never had a problem with XP64 except an old printer not recognized anymore. Comparing winMe and XP64 is really really far
both kernels are not of the same quality at all...
To each his own, I'm just giving options, in any case I think he'll probably not buy any license and keep winXP32 ;)

As for the fact that a 32 bit OS can only address up to 4GB of memory, I already said it before ;)

It’s a total made up of system RAM, graphics RAM, PCI memory range, ACPI and a few other bits and pieces

I wouldn't say that it's made up of gfx RAM. since there's only a range of virtual addresses allocated to it but whatever...

I don't care about internet wisdom either, I only take my information from trusted sources like microsoft msdn blogs and the like, that is people who know a bit what they talk about ;)
visionzGFX
Posts: 1
Joined: 11 Aug 2009, 03:59

over clocking q6600 2.4

Post by visionzGFX »

I have my quad overclocked to 3.6
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest