Ghaargh.... image retention

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 19 Jun 2009, 07:51

I've been playing Master of Orion all night. Now the GUI is etched into my screen. For some reason, it doesn't show up when I use any of the default colors in dead pixel buddy, but it's quite obvious on my bluish desktop background. Also, I found that with DPB's custom color set to R-0 G-0 B-64, the retention looks REALLY bad - so bad I can actually read the GUI labels off the screen.

I'm going to shut the computer off for several hours. When I turn it back on, if the image retention is gone, great. But if it's still there, what should I do?

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 19 Jun 2009, 08:58

What display do you have?

skeeder · Post by **skeeder** » 19 Jun 2009, 14:10

I have the NEC20WMGX2. And it does the same thing. You can RMA the monitor, or just ignore it. I recommend RMA. But you can do somethings to make it less noticeable, like lower your brightness.

Other than that, I've had the same issues. I have my screen saver kick in after 2 minutes to avoid more of it.

Post by **MobsterOO7** » 19 Jun 2009, 16:09

Unless your problem is ungodly bad, image retention on LCDs is relatively fixable. You can either wait for it to get better on its own, or you can be proactive about it.

I once had a similar problem on a viewsonic monitor when I spent an entire day using Adobe Premiere. Set your screensaver to show JPEGS of all the colors and black and white, set its interval as low as you can, and leave it on overnight for a couple of days.

This solution fixed my problem and I hope it fixes yours!

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 19 Jun 2009, 18:00

I have the BenQ FP241W, purchased from NCIX in early '07. I suspect at this point RMA is not an option.

The image retention is still there, but seems somehow not quite as bad as before.

How do I set my screensaver to show JPEGs? I'm using WinXP.

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 19 Jun 2009, 19:31

Display Options -> Screensaver.

Set it to "My Pictures Slideshow."

In the settings window you can choose what folder and what interval. You can either make a bunch of multi-colored jpegs or find a program that runs fullscreen to do the same job.

Just make sure to turn off the power savings so the monitors stay ON while you're trying to do this!

Mesh · Post by **Mesh** » 19 Jun 2009, 20:31

I remember a program for stuck lcd pixels that basically makes the entire screen into analog tv like moving colored static, maybe that could help? I forget the name though.

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 20 Jun 2009, 03:02

I've got my monitor's brightness and contrast cranked up, and it's been playing a slideshow of black.bmp and white.bmp alternating every 6 seconds for the past several hours.

It's going to be a real inconvenience to not be able to use my desktop (I'm on the laptop right now) all weekend, not to mention not being able to use the PS3 since this display is the only thing I've got that works with it. Plus, the available solutions all seem real cargo cult-sciency - I'm basically depriving myself of my main source of productivity and entertainment for an indefinite amount of time on the off-chance that it might solve a problem.

How often would you suggest I stop the screensaver to check to see if it's worked or not? And how often and how long can I stop the screensaver per day to do computer-related stuff like check e-mail, do work, watch episodes of Star Trek, etc. ? And how long should I keep the screensaver on before deciding that this approach doesn't work?

Post by **MobsterOO7** » 20 Jun 2009, 03:35

Do your stuff, and then leave the screensaver running overnight. Do that for a couple of days, maybe three. If it's not any better by then its up to you to keep going or not. My image retention problem was solved after three days if I recall.

Post by **Tamlin** » 20 Jun 2009, 04:29

Plus, the available solutions all seem real cargo cult-sciency - I'm basically depriving myself of my main source of productivity and entertainment for an indefinite amount of time on the off-chance that it might solve a problem.

The solutions aren't really "cargo cult-sciency". :)

Originally, the solution was to keep an all white image to fix this as shown here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_persistence

But, many have discovered that having an alternate black and white image fixes this faster.

Some swedish researchers managed to fix this by applying DC voltage to the lcd matrix and made some patent on this if I remember correctly.

The purpose of the method is based upon the theory that the electrical field in the matrix where you see the image persistance is disturbed by having the same polarity applied for a longer period of time. Perhaps causing a static charge or something influencing the ionic compound in the LCD.

When a screen is turned off for a longer period of time, the charge is diminishing and this can fix itself as said in the above link.

However, the lcd crystals move by applying current and having an alternate black and white gives max current for full off and full on.This is believed to stabelize the electrical field and thus removing the image persistence when applied to over time.

Usually the image peristance is most visible by viewing a mid grey color, so you might make one .bmp of that to monitor the progress? :)

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 20 Jun 2009, 05:08

When a screen is turned off for a longer period of time, the charge is diminishing and this can fix itself as said in the above link.

How long is a longer period of time? And can it be interrupted at all, or must I leave the monitor off for an extended period of time?

I turn the monitor off at night anyway. It's connected to a power strip which I turn off, so it doesn't get any current at all when it's off. If use the monitor normally during the day and turn it off at night like I usually do, would this eventually fix the retention? I'd be very happy to put up with the retention for a week or two if I knew it would eventually just go away - that would be much preferable to leaving it on all weekend.

Post by **Tamlin** » 20 Jun 2009, 05:26

There is a big variation of how long it takes. For some, its a matter of hours, while for others, it takes days. When its off, I don't know how long it takes, but I would imagine it takes longer time. Dell claims that turning off their LCD tv's doesn't fix it at all:

Turning the LCD monitor off for an extended period of time does not clear the image. The charge must be bled off by charging/discharging the pixels with random images.

link

From what I have read, most people who have had a sucessful recovery used the black and white solution at night while operating the computer normally in daytime. After a 2-3 days, it was gone.

I would recommend that method, since its the one thats reported most as successful.

Edit: Here is a link you can read describing the same method. Hopefully it will help you feel the effort is worth trying:
http://www.screen-wipes.com/pc-screen-burn-fix-trick-for-plasma-and.html

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 20 Jun 2009, 06:18

That link pretty much describes what I've been doing. Except for some reason my screensaver won't kick in on its own - I have to click the "preview" button.

Post by **Ryom** » 20 Jun 2009, 06:20

Take a screenshot of the MoO HUD, invert the colors and place that as your screensaver :)

Whatever moron engineers/marketers felt that image retention would be an acceptable caveat for LCDs should be shot. Plenty of LCD tech available that won't IR.

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 20 Jun 2009, 17:24

So, I left the thing on all night, and there's definitely an improvement. With normal use, I don't notice anything wrong at all.

But, when I use dead pixel buddy on R-0 G-0 B-64, I see a ghost of whatever I was looking at immediately before.

I think I'm going to turn the monitor off for awhile now and give the pixels a rest, unless there's a better way to fix this.

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 21 Jun 2009, 03:59

I think it's fixed now. Dead Pixel Buddy on 64 blue or gray still show lines, but they aren't clearly recognizable as the MoO HUD (or anything else) and I don't notice them during normal use. It's possible this is just normal non-uniformity in the screen.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

Post by **Ryom** » 21 Jun 2009, 05:48

You have your monitor calibrated CH?

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/index.php

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 21 Jun 2009, 17:36

Sort of. My brightness is deliberately undercranked, though, because it hurts my eyes at the "optimal" value.

The only one of those tests that is really affected by this is the black levels, where 1 through 8 are indistinguishable.

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 21 Jun 2009, 18:40

I never have brightness up very far either. Blinding...

Post by **Ryom** » 22 Jun 2009, 06:18

You should have a backlight control! Brightness controls white point, NOT luminance! Contrast controls the black point. So if your monitor is "blinding" you want to adjust the backlighting. Calibrate in so you aren't clipping whites (brightness) or crushing blacks (contrast), then adjust the backlight for comfort.

If you really want to nail the calibration, calibrate the gamma as well. You'll probably have to do that via the video driver.

If you do not have a backlight control on your LCD... BAD DESIGN! Also be careful about calibrating blacks with a VA type panel, they are basically designed to crush the low end, and calibrating it away will render the panel with extremely poor contrast.

If you find yourself constantly adjusting your brightness/contrast, that is a sign that your LCD is not calibrated properly. Once you nail the calibration, you should be able to forget about adjustments entirely.

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