GTA IV and more and more

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 29 Nov 2008, 01:36

The game will include SecuROM copy protection, and will require one-time online authentication via the Internet and will also require the game disc in the drive to play. The game can be installed on an unconnected PC, but will still require online activation, even for PC's with no internet access, as it can be done on another internet-connected PC. The game carries a surprising long list of other prerequisites, as they say: "GTA IV PC also requires a number of software installations, including Games For Windows, Adobe Flash, Internet Explorer, SecuROM and our Rockstar Games Social Club application."

:shock:

I wonder how many hours it will take to install? The wording of that statement suggests there might be even more bloatw-, err, 'supporting apps' required.

Activation and a disc-check? Awesome.

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 29 Nov 2008, 01:44

Well I cant wait till they blame pirates because of me (and everyone else that I know) not buying this on PC.

Atleast theres no activation limit, But that doesnt change all that much for me. This is two steps forward, one step back in my opinion.

One step is not enough to make me buy it.

I can see how securom is helpful for the reason that they have it though. Online piracy before the street date, which happens more and more as its more convenient for everyone. With SecuROM, atleast it takes some skill to crack it (or some knowledge to bypass it), with no protection like the 360 games for example, anyone could pop it into their PC and rip it to an iso and upload it. With this atleast it has to get into the hands of someone that knows what they are doing before it gets uploaded online and not just a random employee somewhere that found out how to use nero to rip pc games and wants his 15 minutes of e-fame.

But that does not justify this crap still.

Soduka · Post by **Soduka** » 29 Nov 2008, 02:30

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Oh well, the free version will have everything but multiplayer.

Post by **g00seberry** » 29 Nov 2008, 02:47

Kinda regretting pre-ordering this a bit now. May cancel it and just download it.

This is what they're trying to achieve right ?

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 29 Nov 2008, 02:58

If you don't want devs to use DRM, then don't pirate games. It's pretty simple logic really.

Soduka · Post by **Soduka** » 29 Nov 2008, 04:38

PROTIP: If you don't want them to raise your taxes, don't resist or oppose current taxes!

I get it, you're on a Pro-DRM thing, but this logic of yours is getting ridiculous. You're telling me that if their profits go up and we all buy their games, they will then decide after a period of time they don't need DRM anymore? When has that logic EVER worked in history?

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 29 Nov 2008, 04:49

If you don't want devs to use DRM, then don't pirate games. It's pretty simple logic really.

If you want to stop prop 8, stop trying to marry another gay person.

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 29 Nov 2008, 04:49

I get it, you're on a Pro-DRM thing

You don't get it at all. I'm not pro DRM. I'm anti stealing. If you hate DRM so much that you refuse to support any developer that dares to use it, then by all means boycott the game. But there's one catch - if you don't buy the game, you lose entitlement to play the game.

You're telling me that if their profits go up and we all buy their games, they will then decide after a period of time they don't need DRM anymore?

It's only logical that if we don't pirate their games, they won't need DRM.

When has that logic EVER worked in history?

It worked pretty well in the Caribbean. When piracy died down over there, the empires realized they didn't need to use their navies to combat piracy. So they stopped doing that.

If you want to stop prop 8, stop trying to marry another gay person.

That would defeat the purpose of stopping prop 8. Are you trying to say that giving up piracy would defeat the purpose of stopping DRM?

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 29 Nov 2008, 05:19

When has that logic EVER worked in history?

It worked pretty well in the Caribbean. When piracy died down over there, the empires realized they didn't need to use their navies to combat piracy. So they stopped doing that.

True, but then again, that costs great time, money, and manpower. Implementing anti-DRM measures that have already been developed is quite easy and inexpensive.

If you want to stop prop 8, stop trying to marry another gay person.

That would defeat the purpose of stopping prop 8. Are you trying to say that giving up piracy would defeat the purpose of stopping DRM?

Well they do seem to complement each-other...

If there is no piracy, why would there be a push to stop DRM? But then again, if everyone stopped piracy, the "hardcore" 13 year-olds who are "sticking it to the man" by downloading games and burning them onto discs using a program made by a college student with a flashed Xbox 360 they bought off of Ebay with their parents money which was flashed by a man who makes a living with Xbox "hacking" in his parent's basement would then have no way to do so ("stick it to the man" that is).

I'm not arguing your point, because in a sense you're right. No piracy = no DRM, simple enough.

It simply could be phrased better.

My view on the Corporate Viewpoint:
No piracy = No DRM
Stopping Piracy = More DRM

The companies who actually understand that consumer's hate DRM for reasons other than attempting to pirate it are mostly the ones that are being eaten alive by most other companies. (Ex A: http://kotaku.com/5085915/90-of-world-of-goo-installs-are-pirated)

Not trying to ignite a war here, but just stating my opinion.

Soduka · Post by **Soduka** » 29 Nov 2008, 05:35

Perhaps I could see you're view a little better if you stopped trying to imply all pirates are losers/no life kids.

This will not turn into another debate because frankly, it is clear we cannot convince each other. You will continue to assert I should bend over to spy software on my PC and I will continue to assert we shouldn't have to. Done.

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 29 Nov 2008, 05:51

[quote]
When has that logic EVER worked in history?

It worked pretty well in the Caribbean. When piracy died down over there, the empires realized they didn't need to use their navies to combat piracy. So they stopped doing that.

True, but then again, that costs great time, money, and manpower. Implementing anti-DRM measures that have already been developed is quite easy and inexpensive.

The companies who actually understand that consumer's hate DRM for reasons other than attempting to pirate it are mostly the ones that are being eaten alive by most other companies. (Ex A: http://kotaku.com/5085915/90-of-world-of-goo-installs-are-pirated)

They would save money by not using the DRM, and then make more money from all the people that would not boycott their games.

World of goo is a bad example of such, Look at Sins of a Solar Empire. It was topping the sales charts, and exceeded their expectations big time. It had no DRM.

THE POINT IS THAT DRM DOES NOT WORK.

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 29 Nov 2008, 05:52

Implementing anti-DRM measures that have already been developed is quite easy and inexpensive.

If it drives away customers, and I'm not saying it shouldn't, then it's quite expensive.

Perhaps I could see you're view a little better if you stopped trying to imply all pirates are losers/no life kids.

What difference does it make whether I belittle the pirates or not?

You will continue to assert I should bend over to spy software on my PC

Don't put words into my mouth. I never said anything that would imply that.

I will continue to assert we shouldn't have to.

Believe it or not, there are ways to avoid dealing with DRM aside from stealing. I can think of two. You could just not have the game. Or you could buy the game, crack it, and keep it all to yourself.

They would save money by not using the DRM, and then make more money from all the people that would not boycott their games.

World of goo is a bad example of such, Look at Sins of a Solar Empire. It was topping the sales charts, and exceeded their expectations big time. It had no DRM.

This here is what we call confirmation bias. Instead of beginning with facts, you begin with a theory - that no DRM means more sales. You then move onto the data, and the first sample (World of Goo) does not fit your theory, so you throw it out, dismissing it as a "bad example" and focus only on the data that does fit your theory.

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 29 Nov 2008, 05:56

Perhaps I could see you're view a little better if you stopped trying to imply all pirates are losers/no life kids.

Not at all!

I'm merely implying that there are some kids (where does "no life" come into play?) who pirate things not in the spirit of anti-DRM or for trying to attain free games, but simply because they can.

The two other people I mentioned in my "rant" of sorts is a college kid (none of those exist anymore) and a man who flashes Xboxes and lives in his parent's basement.

I think both of us can at least agree that anyone who uses someone else's software and illegally installs it into another company's hardware for the purchase by pre-teenage kids as a living can hardly be considered someone who is high on a social hierarchy...

They would save money by not using the DRM, and then make more money from all the people that would not boycott their games.

World of goo is a bad example of such, Look at Sins of a Solar Empire. It was topping the sales charts, and exceeded their expectations big time. It had no DRM.

And im done posting in this thread,any time that cranky hermit resorts to picking apart each sentence of peoples posts its enough.

Depending on the DRM type, I don't think there would potentially be all that much saving done...

Although to be fair with Sins, it does use a CD key for installation and online play, and a CD key is required for such (prompting buyers who would want to play online). While I'm not saying it's why the game sold well (it isn't) you can't really disregard World of Goo simply because it works against your argument.

Post by **Abram** » 29 Nov 2008, 06:40

It's the same ol' "buy it then get home and download it for the crack." for me.

I think the most stupid thing of that whole FAQ is the fact that even AFTER you authenticate the install, you STILL need the disc in-drive to play. What kind of horseshit is that?

On the somewhat-bright side, I'm thinking the that the method for registering on unconnected computers will be the gateway to getting a working crack.

One big reason for me purchasing it is for MP.

Post by **maherie** » 29 Nov 2008, 07:22

I'm sick of seeing these threads, we've all seen it before it's the same topic over and over, so let's leave it guys, agree to disagree and move on.

Post by **The_cranky_hermit** » 29 Nov 2008, 07:37

It's the same ol' "buy it then get home and download it for the crack." for me.

Here's a better idea - instead of downloading the whole thing, just get the crack. You'll save lots of time, and you won't strengthen the piracy scene.

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 29 Nov 2008, 07:43

It's the same ol' "buy it then get home and download it for the crack." for me.

I think the most stupid thing of that whole FAQ is the fact that even AFTER you authenticate the install, you STILL need the disc in-drive to play. What kind of horseshit is that?

On the somewhat-bright side, I'm thinking the that the method for registering on unconnected computers will be the gateway to getting a working crack.

One big reason for me purchasing it is for MP.

I'll admit it, I crack all my games.

After I install I see no reason to go and drag out the disc whenever I feel the want to start up a game. It serves no purpose in the drive, so why try put it in?

Mesh · Post by **Mesh** » 29 Nov 2008, 08:37

Thank you rockstar, you've made my decision to buy things from gog.com instead of you quite a bit easier now.

GTA's were always in the 'meh, kinda ok' category, now IV puts it in 'it's been fun, bubye now'

yogibbear · Post by **yogibbear** » 29 Nov 2008, 09:03

Oblivion had no crappy DRM, only a disc check. Hmmm....?

Oh and to be more on topic: damn i was really REALLY looking forward to finally getting a chance to play some GTAIV... but sadly no. I will never get to play this game. :(

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 29 Nov 2008, 09:41

You know the DRM factors were more of a secondary issue to me (the disc check just makes no sense coupled with activation). I was more baffled by the laundry list of required apps that piggyback on top of the game.

Games should be simple to use. Forcing anything on the customer that creates barriers to product usage is very likely going to hurt sales. Why a company would do this, I do not understand. Granted, maybe Rockstar has coded the "World's Easiest Installer" that will make everything work like a charm, without errors or hassle, and will even spit a chocolate chip cookie out of your CD drive while the game installs--but somehow I doubt it.

Another case in point: 2K immediately lost my potential sale for Bioshock when I installed the DEMO and instead of running, it terminated with a SECUROM error. Why would I buy the full product if the free sample won't even work?

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