Fallout 3

[lostn]

How about a third opinion?

I have an Australian boxed copy of the (collector's edition) game (which should be the same as the US but with a different rating on the cover) and my copy is unmodified. No patch, no .ini tampering, and my copy appears to be Hor+. The main menu screen and logos that appear before it are STRETCHED which is bad, but in game, it's Hor+ by default.

Some pics here:

5:4- http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh32/lostn/5-4.jpg
16:9- http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh32/lostn/16-9.jpg
Char creation- http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh32/lostn/charcreate.jpg

16:9 was taken at 1680x1050 letterboxed.

Certify this game.

EDIT: I took some images of the stretched menu screens:

PSB 5:4- http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh32/lostn/PSB5-4.jpg
PSB 16:9- http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh32/lostn/PSB16-9.jpg
Menu Screen 5:4- http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh32/lostn/menu5-4.jpg
Menu Screen 16:9- http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh32/lostn/menu16-9.jpg

There is actually SOME Hor+ there, but the stretching is obvious. It's a combination of both. Those are some unfortunate blemishes, but the gameplay is still Hor+ out of the box.

[The_cranky_hermit]

No patch, no .ini tampering, and my copy appears to be Hor+.

Are the 2D screens hor + without .ini tampering? Does 1280x768 work without .ini tampering? According to the DR, they don't, which is why the game is not certified.

[lostn]

1280x768 (1.67:1) is not an available resolution to me or even one of the aspect ratio profiles in the game options, so I guess no it's not available without editing.

The 2D screens are Hor+ without .ini editing, but they are also stretched at the same time. Circles appear oval shaped. Who knows why they did this.

In my opinion, this game has done a very good job with widescreen support, offering letterboxed modes for people who's screens aren't as wide as they would like. I haven't seen a lot of games offer that option.

[The_cranky_hermit]

I'm not talking about the main menu and loading screens. I'm talking about character creation, lockpicking, the Special book, and computer terminals.

[Xantheous]

Ok so either I don't like to read, cannot find the info, or completely do not understand how to do this. (I think it's the latter) How do I Run Fallout 3 at 3840x1024? Does someone have an INI i can get or is there one on this site? Do you have to know video cards/monitors I have or wha? Little help for the noob would be greatly appreciated. I have heard of people getting in into 3840x1024 but the hud was jacked or something. Thanks in advance.

[Tanuki]

[url]http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/node/9611]

[Xantheous]

[url]http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/node/9611]

TYVM!

[Tanuki]

A new patch is out. I think nothing has changed regarding the widescreen behavior.

I had a slight issue with the patch install so I could be wrong. Feel free to chime in if you notice something different.

[felixdrake]

I never understood why there is this ... sometimes arrogant assumption that if you are in a widescreen resolution, you MUST be in the right resolution to see every pixel, even if it is not relevant to the game.

Now I will mention that I *DO* play in widescreen, including in Fallout 3. I have not found anything to be stretched, and I have found that while there ARE screens that have Ver- instead of Hor+ for interfaces, they are in the places where Hor+ would frankly not look as nice.

I believe the lockpicking screen was CHOSEN to be Ver-.
It lets you see the important bits better. Making it Hor+ would just put more dead filler background in. It shows plenty of vertical space to see the angle of your tool.

I believe the hacking screen was also chosen to be Ver-
Ditto for character creation.

Think for a moment what these things would look like with Hor+
They have a bit too much side space as it is.

These screens work better in a non widescreen resolution. That's not a programming oversight. It's the basic mechanics of putting a 5:4 game monitor (or fundamentally fairly square based mini game) into the game and trying to make it look good in widescreen.

Note that the PIP boy uses Hor+ because while it is at it's core a 5:4 screen, it is mounted on a horizontal based device. That makes it work better on a widescreen resolution because the whole image is wide.

They actually *gasps* ADDED dead space to a whole four 5:4 static screens. What a crime. Get over yourselves already. Your widescreen interfaces are larger and clearer for it. When there is a point to Hor+ (in the main game engine) you have it. Having tried both, I will tell you it is a signficiant advantage on top of making exploration more pleasant.

I would be more concerned that in extreme widescreen modes in first person, it can raise the gun slightly (which depending on gun can obstruct your aim more).

EDIT:I have not seen any actual SCREENSHOTS of this, but I am told that with extreme widescreen modes (multiple monitors, heavy letterboxing etc.), the Ver- could be enough to be problematic.

The fix?:
"edit fDefaultFOV=75.0000 to 150.0000 this changes the menus FOV not the game! so the pipboy, hacking terminals and lock picking screens appear how they should look. "

Conclusion? The devs made a decision. They have a setting to change that decision. It doesn't autoscale, if you go against their call, you have to set it yourself. Once again, get over it. I find the solution more than reasonable.

[felixdrake]

1280x768 (1.67:1) is not an available resolution to me or even one of the aspect ratio profiles in the game options, so I guess no it's not available without editing.

1280x720 is available, as is 1280x800. Regrettably, precisely 1280x768 is not. If you are letterboxing, I would suggest one of the aforementioned resolutions. If 1280x768 is your native screen resolution, definitely edit the ini files.

The 2D screens are Hor+ without .ini editing, but they are also stretched at the same time. Circles appear oval shaped. Who knows why they did this.

With latest patches, they should not be stretched. They were not for me ... however... several 2D screens have a mix of Hor+(background) and Ver-(foreground). Unless you are going multi monitor, the Ver- does not cut into the working area of the menu/minigame. It means for hacking, the black/green working area of the screen touches top and bottom of your display but is not cut off. Lockpicking is a little more controversial, as you see less of the hand picking the lock. The alternative, however, is enough dead space to really look kind of wrong.

I believe these are intentional choices (albeit made without consideration for multi monitor configs). There is an .ini setting to zoom them as you see fit.

In my opinion, this game has done a very good job with widescreen support, offering letterboxed modes for people who's screens aren't as wide as they would like. I haven't seen a lot of games offer that option.

Agreed. I also strongly suspect this is part of why they went Ver- on the menus mentioned. If someone has a non widescreen monitor, letterboxes, then gets a menu, it could get pretty tiny.

[The_cranky_hermit]

Letterboxing on 4:3 monitors won't make it any tinier than it already is, you know.

[felixdrake]

Letterboxing on 4:3 monitors won't make it any tinier than it already is, you know.

If the game did a Hor+ instead of a Ver- it would.
The size would be keyed to the vertical, much of which is cut off by the letterboxing, meaning the same image would be 1/2 to 2/3 of the height, and since aspect ratio would be kept, 1/2 to 2/3 the width.

This is probably a good part of WHY it's Ver-.

On a somewhat related note, I'd like to apologize for the tone of my previous message. While I do not withdraw the technical points I made, I let completely unrelated issues cause my post to be acerbic to a degree that was uncalled for. For this I am sorry.

[The_cranky_hermit]

If the game did a Hor+ instead of a Ver- it would.

If it were hor +, 4:3 would be unchanged, and widescreen would just have filler on the left and right. This is a perfectly acceptable mechanism for handling widescreen on 2D stuff.

The size would be keyed to the vertical, much of which is cut off by the letterboxing,

If they made it hor +, there wouldn't be any letterboxing, and the same image would have 100% of the height no matter what AR you use.

[felixdrake]

The size would be keyed to the vertical, much of which is cut off by the letterboxing,

If they made it hor +, there wouldn't be any letterboxing, and the same image would have 100% of the height no matter what AR you use.

I'm afraid you are missing the point. Fallout 3 offers people WITHOUT widescreen monitors (and people running Fallout 3 in windowed mode) widescreen resolutions that are letterboxed.
Someone with a "stock" monitor, which is presently about a 17" flat screen non widescreen that will run 1280x1024. They fear .ini files. They want more field of view. They switch it to 1280x800[Letterbox] in the options on the launcher.

The game does not CARE what size your monitor is, it scales to the resolution chosen. A menu that used to take up the full screen now takes up the full viewing area (about 80% as high). If it is Hor+, there is no vertical cropping, extra dead space is added, and the menu is as high as the viewing area... which is 80% as large as it was before picking the letterboxed resolution.

If it is Ver-, 10% of the menu frame is lost on the top and 10% of the menu frame is lost on the bottom. At extreme widescreen resolutions (which DO happen thanks to multi monitor configs) this becomes a problem, albeit one an .ini edit can fix.

[The_cranky_hermit]

I'm afraid you are missing the point. Fallout 3 offers people WITHOUT widescreen monitors (and people running Fallout 3 in windowed mode) widescreen resolutions that are letterboxed.

Then if 4:3 users won't get an expanded 16:9 frame as a result of the letterboxing, why have black bars at all? Why not just have 2D mode run in fullscreen, and let the black bars take over in hor + 3D mode where this actually results in a 16:9 frame?

[felixdrake]

I'm afraid you are missing the point. Fallout 3 offers people WITHOUT widescreen monitors (and people running Fallout 3 in windowed mode) widescreen resolutions that are letterboxed.

Then if 4:3 users won't get an expanded 16:9 frame as a result of the letterboxing, why have black bars at all? Why not just have 2D mode run in fullscreen, and let the black bars take over in hor + 3D mode where this actually results in a 16:9 frame?

Because for a menu you generally want to read it, and, frankly, there is not much extra to see.
For run and gun in first person, you want an expanded field of view.

Now ... there is the argument that you could go into the .ini file and adjust the field of view settings, but ...
a)some consider editing the .ini files in ways that give one a game advantage akin to cheating... and a wider FOV *IS* a game advantage. Having an option in resolutions that allows it explicitly demonstrates it is a regular game option, not a modding tweak or console command (keep in mind what else console commands do).

b)some don't know how to mess with .ini files and frankly would be a menace to their computer if they tried. On a similar note, scaling of both the ver- menus and the hor+ FOV can be done by said .ini file...

... so however you WANT the menus to crop or add, you can do so, whatever mode you are on, widescreen or otherwise. This means for power users, the argument has become a bit of a moot point, unless you change to resolutions with different aspect ratios regularly.

Edit:To have fullscreen for 2D menus and widescreen for the main game engine would involve switching resolutions on the fly every time you pick a lock, which would be a disaster... that or not actually rendering it in widescreen at all, just expanding the FOV and blacking out the top and bottom (which is significantly harder on a video card). Also, many monitors align differently in different resolutions and refresh rates, sometimes shifting the image edge off the screen several inches, as well as having a short time black between. This does not happen with all resolutions, but it happens enough to be an issue on enough systems. Trying to fast switch resolutions to show more dead space on menus is, regrettably, very technically messy.

[StingingVelvet]

The rules for certification have to be strict because it is a quantafiable method... we rate the games on criteria, and making it subjective makes every report a crap shoot.

I get what you mean about the things Fallout 3 was knocked for, but the standard formula has to be followed or else all is chaos. The important thing is that the detailed reports show exactly what kind of impact and behavior you can expect a widescreen display to have, and then the consumer makes a decision based on their priorities.

[The_cranky_hermit]

Because for a menu you generally want to read it, and, frankly, there is not much extra to see.

That doesn't answer my question. Why would you use this:


when you could use this?

For run and gun in first person, you want an expanded field of view.

I'm just talking about the 2D screens. We're all agreed that the way Fallout 3 handles 3D stuff is flawless. All I'm saying is that the 2D stuff could have been implemented better. Vertical scaling based on aspect ratio is never the right method.

[Unknownsock]

Sorry if i missed something here but doesn't fallout work 5040x1050 natively now? Tried it the other night, fully patched retail and i had no problems.
Although didn't really test it.

[Deusfaux]

so as so often happens, after reading 6 pages of arguments, I'm still not sure what I need to do to get the best widescreen experience on my 16:10 display.

just set the resolution in game and I'm golden? FOV is automatically corrected properly?