Some questions about the Logitech Momo?

[Frag Maniac]

I'm slowly acquiring more racing games and am tired of playing them on KB. I have an Xbox Duke controller, USB adapter and XBCD I can use but I have a hard time with gamepads. Most people say the Momos have good response so I'm thinking of trying one. I found a place online where I can get one under $70 with shipping included.

What makes me apprehensive is all the talk I've read about the pedals crapping out due to slop in them, the potentiometers coming loose, and gas or brake activating when the opposite pedal is used. Some speculate the latter is due to the pots coming loose as they're not held in place very well.

In some of the threads about make shift fixes I've found for these problems I read that Logitech replaces them with refurbished models. It appears sometimes they send a better pedal set with metal vs plastic pots that have a better retaining system for the pots. I don't necessarily want to use FF though (unless a very light setting) so I'm not sure the lack of ball bearing freewheel feel like the old Momos had would bother me. As far as I know the old red Momo with metal pedals cost a lot more anyway.

So this brings me to my questions.

1) Does the Momo have fast response with no lag?

2) Is the cheap plastic/rubber Momo they make now worth buying for the casual racer or is the pedal problem not worth it?

3) Some say the right size O ring, one wrap of electrical tape around the pedal shafts, and something like putty to hold the pot in place is all it takes to keep the pedals working, is this true?

4) Do the Momos made now have metal vs plastic pots with a better retaining system?

I only have a few NFS titles, DiRT and GRID for racing games. I play a lot of shooters and a few action/adventure titles. Thus the wheel/pedal set wouldn't be used heavily like racing enthusiasts would use one. I'd appreciate any and all input from anyone whom has used this wheel/pedal set.

[DaFox]

Are you open to me suggesting the 360 Wheel? For $100 its a great wheel IMO.

[Cynagen]

Are you open to me suggesting the 360 Wheel? For $100 its a great wheel IMO.

The 360 wheel is a solid little thing and works well. However, if you're going to spend money on a wheel, why go with something you know is going to have one problem or another. Invest in something that's going to feel good and last. I was looking at the Logitech G25, might be worth looking into yourself.

[Mesh]

I have here a logitech 880 harmony remote, 2 wireless ps2 controllers and a 'pro' wheel.

the above all have 2 things in common:

- they all sport the logitech brand
- they all are flimsy, defective products

I'm never buying logitech again, they make nice stuff idea-wise, just not high quality build wise.

[Frag Maniac]

I've heard people say they like the 360 MC2 wheel made by Mad Catz. The thing is though I've asked before on NFS forums which wheel has the best response with no lag and most say get the Momo. Of course I was asking about PC specific wheels though. I bought a Saitek RD440 and it had lots of lag so I returned it at a shipping loss. thus I'm a bit apprehensive about buying a wheel with no over the counter refund option.

I really like what some are saying about the MC2 wheel set though, most say it has very fast response. IGN puts it this way, "The wheel is great: tight and accurate with a negligible dead zone". That pretty much describes my top priority in the wheel, but what about the pedals? Guess I'll have to read some more reviews.

I'm not sure how well the 360 wheel would work with PC games or how well it would hold up. Some I've talked to say Mad Catz stuff in general isn't very tough. I'd love to have a nice wheel like the G25, but I can't really justify $300 for a controller for games that aren't the bulk of what I play.

I know some of Logitech's stuff is crap, but I'm not willing to pass all their stuff off as bad. My MX500 has lasted nearly 4 yrs through lots of gaming and I only paid $26 for it (OEM) 45 months ago. I have to say though after reading about and seeing pics of the way the Momo pedals are designed, they don't look like something that belong with a good wheel if the Momo wheel really is that good.

DaFox, there was an MC2 made called the Universal model, but it's only cross console platform, not including PC. This is what I've found so far for reviews on it along with this excerpt stating that fact:
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/madcatz%20review/

"Of course, a few things could have been made better like the wheel and pedal’s grip, or the fact that it won’t work with a PC"

Then there's this excerpt from a CNET review on the 360 model: "...while the wheel connects via USB, it's not PC compatible."

I also found this customer review though whom says he only uses it for the PC: "The only negative I would have is that you can't use the vibration feature on the PC. So far I have tried this wheel on 4 games on the PC. Need for Speed Most Wanted (does not see the wheel). CRC 2005 great, Pro Race Driver great, even Master Ralleye (as old as it is, worked fine too). I don't own a Xbox 360, so I have nothing to say about that. I bought it to see if it would work on a PC. It was a cheaper route than a $100 Logitech Momo. And it works well with most PC games."

He also said it uses the 360 gamepad driver, and there's an Xbox 360 gamepad for Windows now. So, with the latest Xbox 360 gamepad for Windows driver, do you think this would work well on PC? I'm not liking that it doesn't work with NFS MW.

I went to the Mad Catz site and they don't show a wheel that works with PC.

[DaFox]

I would never buy a Mad Catz product. Im talking solely about the white Official 360 wheel. I use it exclusively with the PC since so many games are ports now its probably the best supported wheel in most major racing titles like GRiD for example. I do recall not being able to get it to work with NFS:Carbon or Pro Street though. That may be a deal breaker for you if your a big fan of either of those.

As for the G25, My friend actually found his online here in canada for $140. At that price its probably worth it to step up to it if you play more than 7 hours or so of racing a week.


I should also warn you. With owning a wheel comes the hassle. I play racing games less now that I own a wheel just because its a chore to set the wheel up every time I want to play for half an hour.

[Frag Maniac]

Yeah I didn't notice you said $100. I have done some checking on the MS wheel you're referring to though. Odd that you say it doesn't work for Carbon, yet note the games they show in the lower right of the page for that wheel on the Xbox.com site: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360wirelessracingwheel/ Could it be you are missing a patch to Carbon that makes it compatible with this wheel?

According to them it has support for Carbon as well as DiRT and GRID. Well that covers the last 3 racing games I bought anyway. Ive read that they don't work for NFS MW and I assume that means they won't work for NFS U2 either. The thing is though, often times when someone says a controller won't work for a certain game they're talking about the Force Feedback, which isn't a necessity for me.

Can you tell me if this wheel can be used non wireless? I've read they came out with a non wireless retrofit after some of them had issues running too hot. Older pics I've seen show the wheel with 2 cables and some show it with 3 cables. I'm assuming from the way some of the GameStop employees described the package contents they now include an AC adapter. One review site even said you can use it as both a non wireless option and charge the batteries while playing.

I'd also like to know how tweakable it is. Once you plug in the wireless receiver to your PC, do you get calibration options like sensitivity and deadzone percentage? I've read it's pretty fast in response, but some say twitchy. From what I've read/heard so far I'm not sure if twitchy means little to no dead zone or overly sensitive force feedback when hitting curbs and such, which is how one person seemed to describe it.

So far I've found the wireless gaming receiver you need to go with it for $8 and the wheel itself for around $84. I'm definitely considering this one. Most say it's built pretty rugged.

[Cynagen]

Whoever said Logitech stuff is shit, their low end stuff is cheap plastic. The G25 is high end $300USD+ mostly metal. 900 degrees of turning, 6 speed gearshift with English Reverse (press the stick down and shift into 1st), and the pedals are metal too with clutch. Carbon supports it fully, so does Most Wanted, and it's such high quality, why do you think i've wanted one for almost 2 years now? (I've always found other stuff to spend my money on, trip earlier this year, then a new 360... bills... etc.)

[DaFox]

@Frag Maniac

Hmm It could have very well been NFS:MW that did not work. It was quite a long time ago when I first picked up my wheel.

I have no clue if theres a non wireless version. I don't believe so buy I could be wrong. What you could be seeing is the wireless Adapters wire+ the wire that connects the pedals to the wheel (shame that its not wireless as well) and the power for the force feedback (Can also use 2xAA batteries but you dont receive the feedback)


Its not all that tweakable in windows. At best you get either sensitivity or deadzone options. I truly forget though I always set it up in game which works fine. GRiD for example theres settings for EVERYTHING from sensitivity to force feedback.

Its build decently, Probably slightly more durable than the MOMO, Obviously its no G25 though as Cynagen said. Something I should note is that of course with the 360 wheel you have stick shift if your in to that, Only Paddle shifters And theres no clutch either.

[TMK]

1) Does the Momo have fast response with no lag?

What do you mean "with no lag"? The response depends on how you set a wheel (eg. steering linearity, deadzone) and the game options.

2) Is the cheap plastic/rubber Momo they make now worth buying for the casual racer or is the pedal problem not worth it?
3) Some say the right size O ring, one wrap of electrical tape around the pedal shafts, and something like putty to hold the pot in place is all it takes to keep the pedals working, is this true?
4) Do the Momos made now have metal vs plastic pots with a better retaining system?

I only have a few NFS titles, DiRT and GRID for racing games. I play a lot of shooters and a few action/adventure titles. Thus the wheel/pedal set wouldn't be used heavily like racing enthusiasts would use one. I'd appreciate any and all input from anyone whom has used this wheel/pedal set.

There's a couple of wheels you can buy:
- Momo Force (the red one) - metal paddles/shifters, metal pots, no clutch, 270 degrees, metal bearing, split-axis,
- Driving Force Pro - no clutch, 900 degrees, plastic paddles, sequence shifter, digital pedals (I don't know how to describe this, they work like "analog buttons" in dualshock2), metal bearing, split-axis,
- G25 - 900 degrees, clutch, metal paddles, H-shifter, metal bearing, split-axis - it's the best Logitech wheel today.
Or you can buy a new Logitech Driving Force GT (I din't tested it yet but you can watch a good review below)
http://insidesimracing.tv/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=125&Itemid=184

...and don't buy Logitech Momo Racing.

btw sorry for my english ;)

[Frag Maniac]

Hmmm, understood and/or already knew the above comments, except for batteries are optional but don't give you FF if you use them. If you don't get FF with batteries then they're clearly for powering the wireless feature. So why doesn't the use of the AC adapter instead of batteries power the wireless receiver? I've read at the very least it charges the batteries while it's plugged in. If so, I would probably play with the AC adapter plugged in with FF on the lowest setting if on at all, barely enough to detect the wheels sliding or completely off.

I know the G25 is much higher quality and am not surprised it supports the games mentioned well. Odd thing is, many that rave about it have wished they had it rather than actually own it. Plus the fact that I'm only a casual race gamer owning only 5 arcade type games. OK 6 once I start playing TDU that I just got, but that's arcade too. Even the 360 wheel was designed around Forza 2, which leans more toward sim style racing, but I'm not really into sims. In fact I'm not sure I'd even care to manual shift except on drag races.

The G25 would be nice, heck I might even turn into a better racer and do sims if I had a wheel like that, but $300 is a lot to spend just to find out. I beg to differ with the all wheels have sensitivity adjust feature. I bought a Saitek R440 and I saw no way in the software to adjust sensitivity nor did Saitek say there was a way to do that. Also, the Logitech Nascar, a cheap $35 wheel that mounts via suction cups, is the ONLY wheel I've seen as being advertised with sensitivity adjust.

I know there's probably lots of wheels now that you can tweak sensitivity in the software, but when I asked Saitek about it they said usually the game's menu is where you do that. If the game doesn't have such a feature and your wheel doesn't though, you're stuck with what you get.

[TMK]

If you would like to buy a new wheel and If G25 is too expensive for you, buy a Logitech Driving Force GT. It's a new, better version of DFP and it cost 50% less than G25 and it works with pc too. Remember, If you don't want FF, you can turn it off in the profiler ;)

But... if you don't care about a warranty you can buy a good used wheel (ex. from ebay) ;)

It's my list of wheels which I've tested (from older to newer):
Logitech Wingman (yellow rubber, no FF, no clutch, good pots, no bearing, good shifters) - very good old wheel (photos here. It's not the same as Logitech Wingman Formula GP which is newer but much worse.
Logitech Wingman Formula Force (same as above but with red rubber and FF) - very good wheel (photos here It's not the same as Logitech Wingman Formula Force GP which is newer but much worse.
Thrustmaster (a.k.a. Guillemot) Force Feedback Wheel - a little weak paddles but it's a good wheel with metal pots and good FF, now unsupported by producer (photos here, there's a two versions of this wheel with different FF and pedals, I had the older one)
Microsoft Sidewinder FF Wheel - better than Thrustmaster FF, very good wheel with optical pots (photos here
Logitech Momo Force (see my previous post) - very good wheel (which I'm still using with no problems) - photos here BTW some people call their Momo Racing "Momo Force" but it's not true.
Logitech Driving Force Pro (a.k.a. DFP) - see my previous post. Some say it's better than Momo Force. Well... if you want a 900 degrees... yes, it's better but if you don't it's not better ;) Photos here
Logitech G25 - see my previous post. It's a great wheel for simracers but expensive.
Oh, I almost forgot about ActLabs Force. It's a great "oldschool-looking" wheel with a great RS shifter (I didn't tested this wheel).
Here you can find an old but good article (it's not mine) about these wheels ;) Well, I know there's a lot of new wheels on the market so if you really want to know something about them, you can always go to forum.rscnet.org :)

BTW don't bother with wireless wheel controllers, especially with no clamp system or mounts via suction cups.

[Frag Maniac]

Thanks for the input TMK but I'm mainly trying to find out about the MS 360 wheel I was talking about. I don't typically like wireless stuff but everyone says it has very fast response and you can charge the batteries while playing. The one criteria you did not remark on in any of those testimonials is response, and that, as I mentioned above, is my first priority. I know you can adjust sensitivity in the software, but if you have lag you still don't have immediate response.

[packerfan]

I have a MOMO that worked fine when I used it recently, my only issue was getting the car to move in gtr2 (I had it on the hardest settings possible) I think I wast shifting right (trying to use a button as clutch probably wasn't smart). I never seemed to have any of the issues you mentioned, I also may consider selling it if you are curious about buying it. Send me a PM if you have an interest later. All of my uses before that worked fine, if you want me to, I can try it in trackmania nations and or Need for Speed Most Wanted too (though NFSMW doesnt work great with controllers)

I can probably dig it out and test the response later if you would like, even if you want to buy a brand new one. I don't use it a ton and I probably am not the best source to test for lag, but I can test it later if you would like and give my quick impressions.

[Frag Maniac]

Well thanks pack but the only wheel I would buy used is a high end one like the G25, and even then I'd want it to be like new. There are others of course like the old red Momo with metal pedals and the DFP that are high end, but the only chance of buying one like new would probably be a G25 as it hasn't been out as long.

On a racing game side note, does anyone know if the 1.66 patch for Test Drive Unlimited allows you to use your saves or do you have to start a new game? Also, is there just one patch, I've read about a 1.66 and 1.66a?

[DaFox]

Im slightly confused about what you mean by charging batteries and what not.

The Wireless adapter plugs into the USB port on your PC and is powered via that. The Wheel is only wireless and is built in. It Syncs up with the receiver via a push of the button on the wheel and on the receiver.

To power the wheel theres 3 Options:

1: Plug it into the Wall socket. This is the only method that provides any FF.

2: 2xAA batteries. Preferably rechargeable, but they cannot be recharged by the wheel.

3: A rechargeable Lith-Ion battery pack, I'm 90% sure this can be recharged by the wheel.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360rechargebatterypack/default.htm

And Yeah I would never buy a second hand racing wheel. Since it can have so much wear and tear.

[packerfan]

No problem, it is basically like new (maybe 20-25 hours in basically mint condition) but shipping it would probably be a PITA especially packing it up into a box since I don't have original. I may just craigslist it and see if I can get a fair amount for it.

[Frag Maniac]

To power the wheel theres 3 Options:

1: Plug it into the Wall socket. This is the only method that provides any FF.

2: 2xAA batteries. Preferably rechargeable, but they cannot be recharged by the wheel.

3: A rechargeable Lith-Ion battery pack, I'm 90% sure this can be recharged by the wheel.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360rechargebatterypack/default.htm.

Ah, I see, then I was right, you don't have to actually use it wirelessly. I've not only seen the charge pack on that site, I've seen pics of the battery holder that comes with it on a review site reviewing this wheel and they referred to it as the charge pack. Thus that was what confused me. So you're saying it doesn't actually come with the charge pack?

I wonder if the reviewer on that site just mistook what may be a mere battery holder as a recharge pack. I did notice it looked like it had a little round thumb twist top on one side as if to access regular batteries. Since they called it a charge pack though, I thought maybe it had removable NiMH batteries or something, which is btw what the charge pack comes with, not Li Ions, though it says cell not cells so it's probably two industrial grade NiMHs shrink wrapped together.

You don't suppose it's possible they started packaging them with the charge packs do you? Like I said I've seen some with only two cables and some with three. Maybe the 3rd one is the charge adapter for the battery pack.

[DaFox]

[quote]To power the wheel theres 3 Options:

1: Plug it into the Wall socket. This is the only method that provides any FF.

2: 2xAA batteries. Preferably rechargeable, but they cannot be recharged by the wheel.

3: A rechargeable Lith-Ion battery pack, I'm 90% sure this can be recharged by the wheel.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360rechargebatterypack/default.htm.

Ah, I see, then I was right, you don't have to actually use it wirelessly. I've not only seen the charge pack on that site, I've seen pics of the battery holder that comes with it on a review site reviewing this wheel and they referred to it as the charge pack. Thus that was what confused me. So you're saying it doesn't actually come with the charge pack?

I wonder if the reviewer on that site just mistook what may be a mere battery holder as a recharge pack. I did notice it looked like it had a little round thumb twist top on one side as if to access regular batteries. Since they called it a charge pack though, I thought maybe it had removable NiMH batteries or something, which is btw what the charge pack comes with, not Li Ions, though it says cell not cells so it's probably two industrial grade NiMHs shrink wrapped together.

You don't suppose it's possible they started packaging them with the charge packs do you? Like I said I've seen some with only two cables and some with three. Maybe the 3rd one is the charge adapter for the battery pack.

Well you have to use it wirelessly connecting to the PC. You can use it with essentially wireless power with the batteries.

In the end you will always have at least one wire, The wire that connects the foot pedals to the wheel then out via wireless to the receiver dongle.

The receiver could also be one of the cords that you seen.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360wirelessgamingreceiver/default.htm

Actually you are correct about the batteries, I just went to open the battery compartment for the second time ever, It comes with a battery pack, but its empty obviously.

I had thought the main wheel power would charge the batteries but It appears that it does not..
The only other options for recharging a charge pack are:
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemsetup/xbox360/accessories/playchargekit.htm
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemsetup/xbox360/accessories/quickchargekit.htm

The 'Play & charge kit' I guess plugs into the front of the wheel, and then into a USB port on the PC/360. I highly doubt that you can then play the wheel via USB though... but I could be wrong.

Later today or tomorrow I'll plug her in and see what kinds of options it gives in windows.


I'm actually learning as we go just like you, this was very much an impulse buy while it was on sale back in the day.

[TMK]

I have a MOMO that worked fine when I used it recently, my only issue was getting the car to move in gtr2 (I had it on the hardest settings possible) I think I wast shifting right (trying to use a button as clutch probably wasn't smart).

If you don't have a clutch pedal, use "auto clutch" option in game. You don't have to use a button as a clutch.