Modern WarFAIL 2

[GeneralAdmission]

"How to piss off and ignore your customers":
LINK

I see a trend here. Starcraft, CnC, now CoD...the big franchises are being used to "re-imagine" pc gaming according to the wishes of devs and pubs, gamers be damned. Well I already opted out of purchasing the first two--now CoD joins the list.

-edit-
Thread title enhanced. Thx StingingVelvet. ;)

[DaFox]

I've been losely following this, I have never had any desire to pick up the game but this... this just disgusts me.

Here are the snippets:
We're doing a lot on the backend to make the game accessible for everyone.
There is no delay for the PC version of MW2
There's prestige mode
Jason West at the MP event, said that he was dead on, on the matchmaking servers. We've been building a system on the backend called IW.NET.
You are completely reliant on IW.NET. There are no server lists. There are no dedicated servers.
You have private matches where you can customize the game
You cannot put MW2 on a dedicated server.
This is the first time we've ever done something like this and the team has huge plans for what IW.NET develops into.
Customizing your game...you have quite a few options in a private match
You're getting same game (as in Console), plus matchmaking and private match.
Server admin point-of view, NO DEDICATED SERVERS

I've summarized some of my own thoughts from the cast here:

General
IW partnering through Steam is what you will see in the future. Matchmaking is not through Steam, but IW.NET is run in conjunction with Steam.
GSP's will no longer be renting out servers.
No PunkBuster. VAC will be used as an anti cheat.
Retail distribution: Pre-orders will get a disk. Or you could order from Steam.
DLC may now need to be paid for - not confirmed.
Piracy was only a small reason for going to IW.NET - not the whole reason.

Clans:
No more clan servers. Private matches, replace clan servers.
Listen servers will connect to each other.
IW.NET/Steam will replace the community server admin

Competitive Gaming
Competitive gaming has changed forever.
It might be possible in the future for IW engineers to load a "competitive" setting on IW.NET, but it is far from a guarantee. It might also never happen.

Modding
Modding the game is now very much in question. Fourzerotwo had no info on modding. However, it appears that there will be no mods or maps for MW2.
Modding in SpecOps? Unknown.

If you have never played on a PC, and your multiplayer experience has only been delivered to you via matchmaking, then you will never really understand. But try to imagine a host hosting a game while never turning his console off, and you can always reach that room and play there whenever you want, night or day, because its always on. Now imagine that host has a Pentagon grade internet connection and his X360 can handle 64 players in that room. On top of that, the guy whos the host is actually resurrected Ghandi, so you will all be treated with respect, anyone using racial slurs, being offensive or just detrimental to gameplay experience via TKing or exploiting glitches, is going to be removed from that server forever.

Now imagine dozens and dozens of custom maps running on that server, which you will get for free, because IWs not making them. Then imagine entire communities and forums built around that one room (server). You recognize people who visit that same room, you befriend them, you have fun with these familiar folks.

The story goes on, and thats what were missing. All of it is gone.

I prefer VAC over PunkBuster (which is presumably what CoD4/5 used?) any day of the week though. It should be updated more often though I would agree.

[Abram]

http://www.fpsadmin.com/forum/showthread.php?p=77272


Yepp. I was thinking I'd buy a copy on release day.. but I doubt that wil happen now. Pretty cheesey. And apperently they won't support mods.

[Tanuki]

I would guess the future of PC gaming will be almost entirely comprised of online "providers" along with some casual, offline fare.

Unless there is some sort of technological paradigm shift, à la compact discs. Which seems unlikely.

This reminds me, I have yet to install COD4.

[StingingVelvet]

Eventually every game will be online all the time, and when a company dies it takes all its games with it. I don't see any other future, sadly.

As for this, as long as it has dedicated servers for IWNet official matches I'm good, and it appears it will. The "no dedicated servers" thing is just private 3rd party servers, if you listen to the podcast. That efffects a hardcore audience I have never been a part of.

Sucks for them though.

[GeneralAdmission]

Eventually every game will be online all the time, and when a company dies it takes all its games with it. I don't see any other future, sadly.

Many companies are moving that direction, I agree, but I also see a counter-motion. There are some players moving in the opposite (read: customer-respecting) direction, such as GOG.com and devs who actually fulfill promises to remove all copy-protection, and they have a rabid and growing fan base precisely because of their business attitudes. The future will be interesting.

That efffects a hardcore audience I have never been a part of.

Not even played on a 3rd party server?

[StingingVelvet]

I only play coop, so my multiplayer has been mostly limited to Diablo 2, console games with a friend on the couch and then Left 4 Dead.

I just can't stand competitive multi.

I did play a few rounds of Unreal Tournament on that cool level with no gravity though. That was fun.

[sixshot]

Funny how this news blurb also showed up here. I haven't heard about it until Sunday. Once word spread, it spread faster than wildfire. 80+ thousand signatures on the petition. Thousands (guesstimate) of pre-orders canceled. And me, amongst the rare people who don't buy into the hype and never really went bonkers over the first multi-player footage.

I heard a while back that there were some rumblings of Infinity Ward trying to kill how PC gaming operates and works. Or something along the line of destroying their PC community. I never gave much thought about it. Yet here it is, in full glory, a major slap in the face and a kick in the nuts for all the PC gamers out there who were going to get MW2.

Here's one thing that I found odd. Has anyone ever played World in Conflict? The game has dedicated servers and ranked servers provided by GSPs. Yet the MP part of the game also has the ability to let people press a button and it finds a server for you to connect to. Almost like match-making, isn't it? That system worked as it gave people the ability to click and go while others can just browse and find a server they want to play on. What ever happen to just doing that? There are ways to tackle this. Why are they making it so that hosting is to be provided by IW? Why are they making it so it's next to impossible to kick a retard out of a game even with a kick-vote system in place?

Well, the damage is done. If you got friends who is itching to play MW2 on the console, spread the word. Let your friends know of the history of PC gaming. Let them know that w/o the PC gaming communities, there would be no custom maps for DOOM. Let them know there would not be a Threewave CTF or Team Fortress w/o Quake. Let them know there would not be a Source engine today if it wasn't for Quake II and Half-Life. Let them know that Xbox and Xbox 360 would not be here today if it wasn't for Bungie and Halo. How gaming has evolved today has much of its roots in PC gaming, especially in the FPS genre.

[StingingVelvet]

I think they, like Blizzard, just want people to have to go through IWNet to stop piracy, and they don't want to figure out 3rd party servers within IWNet, if that is even possible.

On one hand I think it sucks for you hardcore guys, but on the other hand I understand completely why they are doing it.

As someone buying the game for the no-doubt amazing campaign and maybe the coop mode, I am not effected, so maybe that allows me to see the logic in it.

[GeneralAdmission]

I did play a few rounds of Unreal Tournament on that cool level with no gravity though. That was fun.

That would be DM-Morpheus. ;) Love that map. Shock Rifle FTW.

I just can't stand competitive multi.

I'm guessing that has more to do with the people who play than the actual gameplay? Just curious.

Back on topic, I'm a dedicated server kinda guy. Got my own set up for SWBF2, BF1942, BF2, L4D, and most recently a UT server. Part of the reason 2 of my local buddies recently re-bought copies of UT is because I was setting up a private server we could use. With the tech I have at hand I could theoretically run online UT MP as long as I want.

Love how DICE has issued multiple statements supporting dedicated servers. Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks pissing off nearly 100,000 customers in a couple days is a bad thing. :lol:

Servers aren't the only issue, of course. There's also the less-than-rosy outlook re:modding and other concerns.

-edit-

Has anyone ever played World in Conflict? The game has dedicated servers and ranked servers provided by GSPs. Yet the MP part of the game also has the ability to let people press a button and it finds a server for you to connect to. Almost like match-making, isn't it? That system worked as it gave people the ability to click and go while others can just browse and find a server they want to play on. What ever happen to just doing that? There are ways to tackle this.

Exactly. When the CnC4 online-all-the-time-even-for-SP news dropped my immediate thought was "why not given the player the CHOICE to login online for SP achievements/stat-tracking/etc."? Such could be implemented easily. But no, EA knows best.

As in that case, it's obvious what IW/Activision want: greater control over their product. The question is why? There are the reasons they give us, then the reasons we can speculate. I'm fairly confident that the "games as services" shift is the predecessor to subscription-based models being rolled out in non-MMO genres: "We already have horse armor, booster packs, and micro-transactions, so how can we get gamers to pay standard subscriptions for FPSs, RTSs, etc.? Easy. Make the functionality of the product dependent on servers that we control, just like MMOs!" (insert preferred evil laughter)

Ultimately there is one endgame: more money.

[Mach1.9pants]

One of the annoying things about lack of servers is the subsequent lack of community. I have an XBox and I have a group of mates that play BFBC every monday with, the match making service is fine for that. We join as a party and never get split, just great.

What it misses though is the community you get with seeing the same guys every time you go to certain servers, have a laugh with them and groan the most when you get slotted by them (damn you, Rubbishbin2000 for hundreds of deaths over many hours of BF2!). I cannot recall ever seeing the same name twice while playing BFBC, they are all just faceless targets. Whereas there are guys I have played with/against on and off for years using dedicated servers, and in different games... cos they go to the same BF2, BF2142, oD4 etc servers as I do

It sucks a lot

[yogibbear]

Well I was going to buy this and Borderlands...

But both are listening servers...

So MP is dead.

Modding is dead.

Competitive gaming is dead.

Oh well.....

:'(

Hilarious because since Prototype the only games i've bought have been half life blue shift, fallout series (1,2, tactics) and darkest of days.

Hm... so Dragon Age Origins it is then...

[DaFox]

Well I was going to buy this and Borderlands...

But both are listening servers...

Wellll Borderlands is more along the lines of something like diablo with guns isnt it? Those types of games have never had dedicated serves.

[StingingVelvet]

[quote]Well I was going to buy this and Borderlands...

But both are listening servers...

Wellll Borderlands is more along the lines of something like diablo with guns isnt it? Those types of games have never had dedicated serves.

Exactly.

[infernus]

Definitely agree with Mach. There's a big community feel with dedicated servers and while I play stuff on the 360 with friends, it'll always be restricted to a "Saturday night activity." Or whatever days you have off, I dunno.

[quote]I did play a few rounds of Unreal Tournament on that cool level with no gravity though. That was fun.

That would be DM-Morpheus. ;) Love that map. Shock Rifle FTW.

Off-topic but: Hall of Giants with [extra] low-grav and super jump == awesome. Throw in some instagib for extra lulz.

[GeneralAdmission]

That would be DM-Morpheus. ;) Love that map. Shock Rifle FTW.

Off-topic but: Hall of Giants with [extra] low-grav and super jump == awesome. Throw in some instagib for extra lulz.

Sounds awesome! When I made the Shock Rifle comment I was thinking specifically about nailing people in mid-air, launching them to the top or far sides of the map. Good times...:D

[StingingVelvet]

[quote]

That would be DM-Morpheus. ;) Love that map. Shock Rifle FTW.

Off-topic but: Hall of Giants with [extra] low-grav and super jump == awesome. Throw in some instagib for extra lulz.

Sounds awesome! When I made the Shock Rifle comment I was thinking specifically about nailing people in mid-air, launching them to the top or far sides of the map. Good times...:D

That's what I remember about it... that was like 10 years ago and I only played the map (and demo) like 5-6 times, but I remember vividly the fun of that map.

[GeneralAdmission]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vOMuAhz6rE

Not as good as the L4D2 vid, but some nice moments.

[StingingVelvet]

They responded in a horrible Game Informer post that basically makes fun of anyone who cares and calls them "nerds" and "pc fanboys."

They said this system is in response to overwhelming complaints from normal gamers who find the server browser system and such confusing, and the modded servers with special people allowed to play elitist and annoying.

As a casual multiplayer gamer I agree, but the tone of the article and their comments annoy me anyway as a person hardcore in other genres who has been talked down to similarly by Bethesda and others.

Read it here: http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/10/20/modern-warfare-2-dedicated-server-response.aspx

[whismerhill]

I just learned about it right now
bad news but really, I don't care that much... I just don't have enough playtime to play every good game out there so ....

if that could stop cheaters it would be good for me, but I doubt it
if that could give them more sales it would be good for them (even if I don't really care), though I again doubt it

it's not because one can't use a product for free that it will go buy it ...

Well I wishes them all the success in the world, but I have my doubts about them achieving just that. :lol: