Bars between screens and side screen distortion please read

[Paddy the Wak]

I have put this up as I have lost count of the times I have had to explain this ...

Distortion on the side screens ...
The point about TripleHead set ups that everyone seems to miss (even when it is explained to them) is that the sidescreens are just for adding to the immersion ... you can't look at or focus on all the screens at once unless you are looking at a screenshot.
Same as in reality ... you can't look at and focus on everything your eyes are seeing at once.

Whilst playing a game you are concentrating on the centre screen where the action is ... in front of you ... just like using one screen.
The sidescreens then add to this giving you some peripheral vision as your eyes have ... and so the distortion isn't noticed so much (if at all) when you are playing.

Another point about the distortion ...
Objects get wider towards the edges of the screen ... even at 4:3.
Some games are better than others but it is like this for just about all first or third person games.
It's normal with most games for things to get fatter towards the edges of the screen... even at 4:3
Some screens to illustrate ...
I haven't moved position in any of the shots ... all I have done is turned to get the NPC nearer to the edge/side.

Click to enlarge ...

Doom 3 ...



Half Life 2 ...



F.E.A.R. ...



So the wider your screen gets the more obvious this distortion appears ... and it is just the way game cameras are ... it isn't an added feature of the TH2G ... it is already there.

Some shots from UT3 ...
4x3 ...


Widescreen ...


TripleHead ...


Bars between the screens
You should be too busy playing/concentrating on the centre screen to notice them ...
Do you notice the edges of the screen when you are playing on one screen ? ... no ... because you are busy concentrating on the game.
So ... just as when you are using one screen you don't notice the edges of the screens or the bars because you are too busy concentrating /playing the game on the centre screen ... the sidescreens as I have said just add to the emersion giving you some peripheral vision.
The emersion is stunning ... giving a view that is far far closer to the way your eyes work in reality ... way more than just one screen could ever do.

TripleHead
I guess it is one of those things you have to experience ...
Looking at screenshots most get it wrong and moan about or point out the distortion ... "fisheye" ... etc.
Looking at photos of setups with 3 screens most get it wrong and moan about or point out the bars between the screens ... "one of those ultra expensive seamless triple monitor setups" really really isn't necessary.
It you ever get to try it you will understand ... until then trust me those that say these things are wrong ... or just picky ... :wink:

[skipclarke]

And here is something else that might help explain it. I pulled these five videos of EVE Online from Fraps. They are listed here in order of increasing FOV. While the increase in FOV does exaggerate the edge stretching, it is still something that is apparent in the 4:3 ratio.

Click on the image to watch the video. They range in size between 6MB - 10MB, so the download might take a moment before they start to play, but they are very high quality.

EVE Online, 4:3, 1600x1200 native res. Video size: 800x600


EVE Online, 16:10, 1920x1200 native res. Video size 960x600


EVE Online, 16:9, 1920x1080 native res. Video size 960x540


EVE Online, 2:1, 2560x1280 native res. Video size 1280x640


EVE Online, 3:1, 2560x853 native res. Video size 1280x426


Edit - I've removed the links to the videos on my .mac site. They have been replaced with the Edge Distortion video from the DTH2Go review, which can now be found here - http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/videos/bezelmgt.php

[tama]

I have put this up as I have lost count of the times I have had to explain this ...


4x3 ...


Widescreen ...


TripleHead ...

Sorry 4 the Off-Topic, but what game is this????

[Paddy the Wak]

UT3 ....... :shock: :lol:

[skipclarke]

I've removed these individual videos, and uploaded the combined Edge Distortion video from our DTH2Go review to the new WSGF video gallery - http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/videos/bezelmgt.php

[nanrector]

Just had someone direct me to this thread as I posted about this issue. I was searching the forum using the wrong terms and couldn't find the answer myself. Thanks for the great explaination. You right... when you involved in the game you don't notice distortion or other minor issues.

Nancy

[Zoombie_444]

The only thing I would add to this is that it would be nice if developers took the black bars into account... There have been a few games that the UI info is placed in positions that appear "between the monitors"

Currently experiencing this with BFBC2... I'm losing part of the mini map and beginning of all convo's including names... :(

Its also curious that they made the loading screens widescreen O_o lose some info in that regard as well between maps...

[suiken_2mieu]

The only thing I would add to this is that it would be nice if developers took the black bars into account... There have been a few games that the UI info is placed in positions that appear "between the monitors"

Currently experiencing this with BFBC2... I'm losing part of the mini map and beginning of all convo's including names... :(

Its also curious that they made the loading screens widescreen O_o lose some info in that regard as well between maps...

This happens in newer games if you are using 4:3 or 16:10 monitors, because centered hud usually assumes you are using 16:9 monitors.

[kindred]

I never noticed any distortion on my 19" LCD when playing FPS games at 1280x1024, but with my new Acer Aspire GD245HQ 120Hz, it's really obvious and beginning to bug me. The geometry distortion is weird. If I'm standing in front of a perfectly square box and I pan slowly left or right it changes into a oblong shaped box. It's basically the same with all objects and characters in any 3D game. Is there a :? fix for this or is there something I can do to reduce the distortion to a minimum? :?

[Ergonpandilus]

Playing a game in Widescreen compared to playing it in Surround it's like comparing driving a car without and with side-windows. You look out most of the time through windshield, but it sure helps to have visibility to sideways as well. Same goes for bars, while you drive your they are there in my view, but they don't bother me.

[Special_K]

People give me the strangest looks when they see my setup. After I start up a game, they just say "that's hax". For some games, yes it gives the advantage. Others, it just gives better immersion into the game. After going to my first real triple monitor setup with my matrox parhelia video card, I won't go back to single monitor unless they are broken, or being rma'ed for stuck pixels.(now)

[Midnight]

Hi there, was about to post a question about the distortion at the NV Surround board when I found this thread.
I'm one of those that never realized this is also happening with single monitor setups but now that I got my 5760x1200 (6020x1200) setup it really started to irritate me. It's not only that objects at the sides are getting more and more distorted but also that they appear much closer. Both of those seem to be less pronounced in some games and much more in others (WoW, Portal2, Mirror's Edge).
Nevermind the fact that it is happening even with 4:3 monitors and you won't focus on your sidescreens as much, is this even acknowledged as a problem (even though it may be tolerated) or is it really considered "the way it's meant to be!"?
Is there a way I can decrease the effect somewhat?

[twitchyzeroo]

^ are there any answers to this?

I have downloaded flawless widescreen...are there any apps out there or some setting in NV control panel that can decrease the stretching in the side screens?

[Eriol]

Stretching can only be affected by changing the FOV of the game. The amount of stretching is engine dependent, it depends on how the game viewport is designed. Many of the console games go for a narrow FOV and large GUIs because they fit TV use better. This of course makes them bad for surround monitors.

Adjusting the FOV can help mitigate stretching, but usually this means you need to adjust the fov to a smaller value, i.e. giving a smaller area to render. It's still probably more than what a single screen would give, though according to common sense it would diminish the vertical fov to smaller than what it is with a single screen, presuming a landscape config. There's very few games (or mods to games) that can be x and y FOV adjusted, the rest are locked AFAIK to a proportional FOV. Something like that might be usable to improve things, but I personally haven't tested it much since mostly the option is not available. I believe FC2 had a fov fix with such adjustments possible.

In essence, there's not much to be done, outside adjusting the fov smaller for a bit less stretch. Otherwise it's up to the game engine designer to take surround configs into account.

[Zencyde]

I really need to do a video on this...

It's that the geometry of the in-game camera is expecting itself to be projected on a flat screen, so a flat slice is taken from the scene. If you draw a triangle from one eye to each horizontal edge of the screen, mark the angle of the corner connected to your eye, and ensure that the game shares the same FOV, there will be NO distortion at all.

The biggest issue with the "fisheye" effect comes from when you bring the sideways monitors inward. This causes the sides of the images to be much closer than the game expects it to be.

This effect was a motivator for going 5x1P, as I do prefer to wrap my monitors around me and it's way less extreme than a 3x1L setup when it comes to this issue.

The only games I've heard of that support multiple monitors that are bent inwards are iRacing and (I've heard) R Factor. Supposedly, it appears more like looking through a window with this. What I'd really really love to see is having the image move with your head such that it appears more like you're looking through a window than looking at a a set of screens. But that's only a pipe dream.


So, recap. If you want the fisheye effect to stop, follow these steps:
Flatten your monitors. They shouldn't be bent inward.
Measure the distance from one edge of your monitor array to the other. Mark this as dist1
Measure the distance from the center of the array to where your eyeballs are located. mark this as dist2
Calculate: 2invTAN((dist1/2)/dist2) to find your real-life FOV.
Adjust your in-game FOV to match your real life FOV.
If that's not an option, move your head back and forth until you match the in-game FOV. ;)

I promise you, the fisheye effect will stop existing once this is performed. Though, you may have to sit abnormally close to the monitors to get it all working fine. :P Have you considered 3x1-portrait?

[ChainMale]

Realy, your EYES DO THIS.

Its a combination of the domed lense on yer eyeball (physics) -and- being a preditor (functional).

This is a little tricky to explain but bare with me.

Ever notice those little tiny LED lights in cars that flash? Not the signal lights, they are part of theft/alarm systems. (some are phoneys too) You notice them mostly at night. Usualy by the rearview mirror, sometimes on the dash. A slow flash that basicaly says "this car has an alarm, stay away!" (You have 20 seconds to comply. heh)

From 10 to 30 feet away these are tiny at night. Now turn yer head so the light goes to the corner of your eye. Only one eye will "see" it, the other blocked by yer nose. That tiny little LED blip will turn into a rather large FLASH. Hold the position once you do get it. It may take some paitience, it will work. Its the same reason -why- we turn to look at "flashing" signs and the like. As a preditor we react to large things that come from the sides.
Our minds compensate for the lense distortion, but right at the edge the preditor kicks in. (Grrr)

You won't believe it untill you "see" it for yourself. A little bit of life's magic.

Any flashing light in the distance will do. The further away/smaller ..the more obvious the effect. A car's flashers from 100-200(maybe more) feet away, just look across the street or next door or 3-4 doors up. Just turn slowly to set it in the edge of your eye. Its magic.

[ChainMale]

Is that write up confusing?

Do you guys/gals get that ok?

[ChainMale]

Nevermind the fact that it is happening even with 4:3 monitors and you won't focus on your sidescreens as much, is this even acknowledged as a problem (even though it may be tolerated) or is it really considered "the way it's meant to be!"?
Is there a way I can decrease the effect somewhat?

It is the way of it. The eye does this natuarly, the mind compensates and you don't "see" it.

..and it does look odd when we see it for real in the side monitors. BUT yer not supposed to "look" directly at them, so quit peekin. heh

Periferal(sp?) vision. Is just as tough to descibe as the "blind spot", low and off center, in our eyes. Our nerves run ON TOP of the light sensors in our eyes. And there is this one spot they all come together and head into the brain in a big bundle. There are -no- light sensors there. The -mind- fills it in with what it "thinks should be there". Some years ago I came across a vid' on youtube that showed it as an optical illusion. (A quick peek to see if I can find it..)

Vanishing head illusion hahah.. its simple and brilliant!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS3L4t1RCDM

..wonders of the internet, eh!
You need to get pretty close, a foot or less depending glasses ..etc.

[theMightyAtom]

Interesting Chainmail, for sure. I think most gamers complaints are the 100 degree field of view in front of them, and not the extreme periphery you are talking about.
It's a simple case of the standard camera frustum mathematics not being "true to life". If you know your program is going to run in a surround environment then you would render a cylinder or sphere projection, rather than a standard, linear, central vanishing point algorithm, which is the fastest. Until the market for wide screen gaming grows, those camera options won't be available in main stream titles.

[Bifurk8]

I've had my local gamer friends respond two ways to seeing triple-wide gaming. They either immediately point out the bezels and stretching/distortion on the side screens and are turned off by it or they think it's really cool. The biggest difference in reaction seems to be between people who have seen it for the first time from over my shoulder and people who tried it out for themselves first.

Get your friends in front of it and let them play a few rounds on a properly supported game rather than demonstrating it to them and they'll likely be converted!