26" LCD, multi purpose (pc gaming, hd, xbox)

benl87 · Post by **benl87** » 18 Jun 2006, 11:38

K n00bs what 26" lcd should I get for hardcore fps, awesome quality hd and all other things awesome? I'm willing to spend up to about $2000 Aud. Even a cheaper decent 32" could be good I guess. I appreciate any help you could give me.

P.S. Sorry for being so lazy and not surfing through the rest of the forum. Also not sure whether those TV's were the ones I was looking at.

Post by **skipclarke** » 18 Jun 2006, 20:46

Your success or failure with your choice will depend on the following

Tutorial: Viewing Image Quality-PC Monitor/TV/Consoles/DVD

I suggest you read it first & potentially save yourself grief & a loss of hard earned money.

Looks like both of these fall short

I can't see where the TX-27LWD500A says it is True HD ??
Progressive Scan = Yes, 576P@50Hz - that is NOT HD

640x480 @ 60/75Hz, 800x600 @ 60/75/85 Hz,
1024x768 @ 60/70/75/85Hz - these are NOT HD

LC32-AX3X

No DVI or VGA inputs - then no good for a PC
1366 x 768 - Again Not HD
AV Input/Output = S-Video Useless for viewing
Does it have HDMI with HDCP ??

You need DVI & VGA inputs
HDMI with HDCP
WWWW X 1080i & p for True HD

Again unless you know someone that has a TV hooked to a PC & it is great - don;t buy one you can;t return unconditionally.

I would wait 6 months or so to see the newer models with the HDMI plugs that will support both 1080 i & p.

Post by **Gilly** » 18 Jun 2006, 21:37

at the risk of saying it... get a dell 2407FPW when they fix the banding issue... its 2" smaller than what u want, but its gonna be better. can handle 1080P via DVI (can someone confim this?) and is a TRUE HD as Doug said. 1080i or p is 1920x1080 signal, i is interlaced scanning (60 frames/ sec, each line alternate scanned) p is progressive (30fps/ each full scanned)

it also doesnt look bad :P

Post by **FrankB** » 18 Jun 2006, 22:02

I've read that the 2407 wont do 1080p on hdmi?? (not sure tho.. :? )

Post by **skipclarke** » 18 Jun 2006, 22:27

RE: "...wont do 1080p on hdmi??"

NOTHING will do 1080p with HDMI at the moment (well as of a few weeks ago anyway). The current HDMI V 2.0a has bandwidth issues. The supporting version is supposedly around the corner :roll:

Further, I have NOT come across a definitive confirmed statement yet made by a manufacturer, that absolutely guarantees that the circuitry of the current & past HDMI (V 2.0a & backwards) will allow 1080p.

FOr DVD/TV viewing I would advise anyone to wisely wait until the fall - to see if Sony keeps its word & actually produces that universal (& backwards compatible) player (DVD's/CD's/HDDVD's/BluRay Discs) WITH at least Component outputs supporting 1080i (1080p ??).
That would open a whole new dimension for most of us. Here's hoping...

However, the player will NOT have digital outputs (other than HDMI) for anything over 420p. They made no mention of DVI-I/D with HDCP.

Wiz33 · Post by **Wiz33** » 19 Jun 2006, 02:51

RE: "...wont do 1080p on hdmi??"

NOTHING will do 1080p with HDMI at the moment (well as of a few weeks ago anyway). The current HDMI V 2.0a has bandwidth issues. The supporting version is supposedly around the corner :roll:

Further, I have NOT come across a definitive confirmed statement yet made by a manufacturer, that absolutely guarantees that the circuitry of the current & past HDMI (V 2.0a & backwards) will allow 1080p.

FOr DVD/TV viewing I would advise anyone to wisely wait until the fall - to see if Sony keeps its word & actually produces that universal (& backwards compatible) player (DVD's/CD's/HDDVD's/BluRay Discs) WITH at least Component outputs supporting 1080i (1080p ??).
That would open a whole new dimension for most of us. Here's hoping...

However, the player will NOT have digital outputs (other than HDMI) for anything over 420p. They made no mention of DVI-I/D with HDCP.

Lies, lies and more lies (not you Doug ) But from the manufacturers. Read the following directly from the HDMI licensing board:

*****Despite speculation in some corners that only the most recent versions of the HDMI spec support 1080p, HDMI Licensing Ã¢â‚¬â„¢s Leslie Chard informed me that all versions of the HDMI spec support 1080p video at 60Hz. It is up to the manufacturers of displays and other HDMI compliant devices to include support for 1080p throughout the architecture of the piece- the HDMI receivers, video decoders, video D-A converters, and all the video processing involved must support 1080p throughout. Given that 1080p sources arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t yet on the market, many display manufacturers seemingly have chosen not to absorb the expense in developing 1080p architectures throughout their displays.*****

Original article here:

http://www.hdblog.net/2006/02/09/update-on-hdmi-1080p/

So it's the display manufacturer's fault if you have a HDTV with HDMI and it cannot support 1080P. If you look at all the new true 1920x1080 HDTV sets on the market (weither LCD, DLP, LCOS or Plasma) most are listed at supporting 1080P over HDMI.

For the record, My 2405, Sceptre 37" & 42" LCD (1920x1080) will all accept 1080p inputs over HDMI (in the case of the 2405 over DVI). Most of the newer DLP units from all the major manufacturer will accept 1080P, also the Westinghouse 37", 42" LCD and the EyeFi 47" LCD will do it also.

As for the 2407, My unit arrived with a damaged box and a Cracked screen, I should have the replacment available next week and will be able to put all this rumor to rest, I'll even have access to a Laptop with HDMI output and HD-DVD to check the HDCP on the 2407 too.

Post by **skipclarke** » 19 Jun 2006, 03:32

So my post still stands as correct & my cautions are thus valid.

As indeed so far it is true that "I have NOT come across a definitive confirmed statement yet made by a manufacturer, that absolutely guarantees that the circuitry of the current & past HDMI (V 2.0a & backwards) will allow 1080p."

So for most hardware it does not/will not support 1080p.

A few TV's may, but not dvd players up to this point. So again - wait to see what will be available that is actually capable of putting 1080p to the TV's.

It means absolutely nothing for the HDMI blog to say all versions of HDMI are capable of producing a 1080p - when noone has yet made such circuitry.
Manufacturers have claimed bandwidth issue with the HDMI plugs & circuits. For only HDMI makers to claim it is capable - is merely self-serving. That "fact" - if indeed it is fact not theory which up to now it has been - must be proven by others actually be able to produce such a "plug".

But hey who knows once again - they call a resolution of WWWW X 768 HD :lol:

Also the claim of a HDTV as in "Most of the newer DLP units from all the major manufacturer will accept 1080P" - means absolutely squat - it has to state thast it can display 1080p for it to mean anything.

My 1366 X 768 will accept 1080i/p also but will display only at 768p.

Wiz33 · Post by **Wiz33** » 19 Jun 2006, 07:19

So my post still stands as correct & my cautions are thus valid.

As indeed so far it is true that "I have NOT come across a definitive confirmed statement yet made by a manufacturer, that absolutely guarantees that the circuitry of the current & past HDMI (V 2.0a & backwards) will allow 1080p."

So for most hardware it does not/will not support 1080p.

A few TV's may, but not dvd players up to this point. So again - wait to see what will be available that is actually capable of putting 1080p to the TV's.

It means absolutely nothing for the HDMI blog to say all versions of HDMI are capable of producing a 1080p - when noone has yet made such circuitry.
Manufacturers have claimed bandwidth issue with the HDMI plugs & circuits. For only HDMI makers to claim it is capable - is merely self-serving. That "fact" - if indeed it is fact not theory which up to now it has been - must be proven by others actually be able to produce such a "plug".

But hey who knows once again - they call a resolution of WWWW X 768 HD :lol:

Also the claim of a HDTV as in "Most of the newer DLP units from all the major manufacturer will accept 1080P" - means absolutely squat - it has to state thast it can display 1080p for it to mean anything.

My 1366 X 768 will accept 1080i/p also but will display only at 768p.

There are plenty of true 1920x1080 (none of these 1366x768 crap) sets out now that will display 1080p over HDMI. Costco alone carries like 3-4 models, look here:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11108990&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11090621&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11112777&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11098479&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=

All of the above manufacturer have smaller size set that's also 1920x1080 and will display 1080p, then there's the Sony, Toshiba, Samsung lineup of LCD and DLP that is true 1920x1080 with 1080p over HDMI.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=tv_hdtv_projectiontv_42to51&ProductSKU=KDSR50XBR1&TabName=specs&var2=

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=56HM195

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/LCDTV/LNS4695DXXAA.asp

In view of this. It's the manufacturers that's been lying as all of a sudden, they now have true 1080p sets over HDMI and in the case of Samung, their new model will do 1080p over component and none of them actually have a HDMI 2.0 port.

Also, All LCDs (including those used in DLP sets) are progressive by nature so it would not have any problem displaying 1080p if a 1080p signal is present.

So baiscally, the major manufacturers are finally catching up and and true 1080p set is currently widely availabe. one only have to pay a bit of attention and do a bit of research before purchase and you'll be fine.

If anyone still have some concerns, get a decent laptop with DVI output and get a DVI to HDMI cable, then go buy or download a WMVHD 1080p sample files from:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx

Take the laptop with you to the store as ask them to let you hook it up, you can then try it out on the set. Most of the newer set will actaully display info on what is being presented on screen (720p, 1080i, 1080p, etc) and you can see if it works out before you buy.

benl87 · Post by **benl87** » 19 Jun 2006, 09:57

Ok so I don't mind if the monitor is not hardcore hd like you guys are trying to describe. I want a good quality picture and a screen that can handle fast paced games. What about a plasma?

Wiz33 · Post by **Wiz33** » 19 Jun 2006, 18:56

Ok so I don't mind if the monitor is not hardcore hd like you guys are trying to describe. I want a good quality picture and a screen that can handle fast paced games. What about a plasma?

Plasmas, even the newer ones still have problem with burn-ins if the same image is on the screen for a long time (like the health bar and maps on a FPS). They can also get fairly hot if not in a well ventilated room.

But LCD also have it's drawback too. Most LCD will have problem with dark colours. Banding will appear on most to a certain degree as you get to dark grey and near black. Some have also said that they see video lag on them although I have never notice it or have it affect my gameplay (it's measurable but not noticable to me).

You pretty much have to accept that you are going to have to take a step back in video quality and fluid motion when you switch from CRT to LCD or Plasma. They also only look their best when running at their native resolution so while I'm perfectly happy with my 2405, driving FPS at 1920x1200 may be a problem unless you have the latest GPU.

One other thing to keep in mind when you do your research. Unless the unit you are considering have a specific PC input mode under HDMI, you might have problem as typical HDTV mode will overscan the picture so even if you are running your PC at the stated resolution of the display. You will lose a bit of screen on all 4 sides and no be really at native res.

Wiz33 · Post by **Wiz33** » 19 Jun 2006, 21:12

Ok so I don't mind if the monitor is not hardcore hd like you guys are trying to describe. I want a good quality picture and a screen that can handle fast paced games. What about a plasma?

Have you consider this:

http://www.viewsonic.com.au/products/lcdtv/specs.php?n=N3260w

Post by **maherie** » 19 Jun 2006, 23:08

W2600 Dell 26" LCD. Does a pretty good job as my main PC. Yet to play a game on it.

Post by **skipclarke** » 20 Jun 2006, 01:17

benl87,

Wiz is right about plasmas - there are other issues about it also & as well they are inch for inch more expensive than LCD's.

As for the N3260w Wiz suggested - I have the exact model (last years)
the N3250w - it is amazing!!

I have written the review here http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/node/5988

I had lent it to my neighbour since I got it to give it a 6 month+ test before taking & leaving it 1000 miles away at out summer place.

I am picking it up this weekend & will hook it to my PC & try it out as a monitor & post my findings.

benl87 · Post by **benl87** » 20 Jun 2006, 13:25

"As for the N3260w Wiz suggested - I have the exact model (last years)
the N3250w - it is amazing!! "

That's awesome dude!! Anything you post is greatly appreciated. It's within my price range aswell. Did it come with a warranty??

"I am picking it up this weekend & will hook it to my PC & try it out as a monitor & post my findings."

Oh please do!! :D:D

Post by **skipclarke** » 21 Jun 2006, 01:24

RE: "Did it come with a warranty??

Boy did it ever !!! - Not only the manufacturer's but Costco's warranty as well... :D

I hope to get it back from my buddy this thursday - so Friday I should be trying it out.

Another nice thing & very rare for (TV's) it comes with software for installation for PC's. The site just has just posted a new updated firmware version too.

I will post my findings ASAP.

Post by **skipclarke** » 23 Jun 2006, 19:43

Well I picked it up last night from my buddies house & as I promised to do many months ago - I hooked it up earlier this AM to my PC & :shock:

Yes.... :shock: Absolutely amazing - I was greatly surprised.

Before installing the N3260w - I first installed the previously downloaded Windows signed drivers & re-did the settings from the L2335 1920X1200 ones.

I used a DVI to VGA adapter plug as the N3260w does not have a DVI input.

At the risk of getting labeled "Fanboy" I will post my honest impressions anyway.

I had found this to be a very fine LCD HDTV & now find this is VERY impressive to use as a PC monitor!

I ran desktop apps, games, WMD movies (hi & low res) & did not find any flaws. My ASUS EAX actually liked running at 1366 X 768 instead of 1920 X 1200 which is a tad high for it.

Word Docs & web browsing were "perfect" text was defined & not "dotty" or pixelated. It was crisp, clear & readable from 2 feet to at leat 9 feet away.
During gaming I was finally able to run settings at max as my card could support it all at the lower resolution.
Photshopping was easy on the eyes & picture definitions were clear & smooth.

What immediately got me when gaming was the brillance of colours in the scenes - HDR was spectacular (Lost Coast HDR HD demo).
I experienced no banding whatsover or any motion blurring.

NOTE: I had tweaked down my ATI CCC settings & desktop resolution for the N3260w before I hooked it up as is always recommended.
I did not feel there was any need at all to tweak the N3260w settings via its extensive OS Menu

Here are some pics of the screen shot in the dark - they don't due the actual visuals complete justice...

I would recommend this set 100% - equally for HDTV & PC monitor use.

I would speculate it would be equally stunning for console use as well.

Don't go out & get one - RUN out & get one.

Click these pics for 1366 X ~768 size

Ice[DDZ] · Post by **Ice[DDZ]** » 24 Jun 2006, 06:50

Good review Doug... I'd like to see someone around here pickup one of the Westinghouse 42" 1080p monitors. Personally if I buy a HDTV it's going to be one of those Westinghouses, they are pretty damn slick IMO :)

Wiz33 · Post by **Wiz33** » 24 Jun 2006, 07:58

"]Good review Doug... I'd like to see someone around here pickup one of the Westinghouse 42" 1080p monitors. Personally if I buy a HDTV it's going to be one of those Westinghouses, they are pretty damn slick IMO :)

Don't have a Westy but I do have the Sceptre 42" 1920x1080 and it's pretty damn nice ;-)

Ice[DDZ] · Post by **Ice[DDZ]** » 24 Jun 2006, 11:04

I was looking at that myself, I think Newegg had the 37" and the 42". Looked good but I didn't have 2,000 to spend on it. Anybody know how much one of the Westinghouse models goes for?

Wiz33 · Post by **Wiz33** » 24 Jun 2006, 20:52

"]I was looking at that myself, I think Newegg had the 37" and the 42". Looked good but I didn't have 2,000 to spend on it. Anybody know how much one of the Westinghouse models goes for?

The Westy and Sceptre is usually priced very close. The 37" have recently dropped to about $1500 and the 42" is around $1800.

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