Cheap projector setup

[EvilEngineer]

My goal is to create a 3x1 projection setup for use with my Nvidia Surround setup.

Currently I'm running on 3 x 19" dell monitors with a bezel corrected resolution of 4116x1024.

After originally looking at projectors in the range of $600-1000 retail and considering that to be too much for what I'm looking for. I debated building my own, at a cost of ~$200-300 per screen + hassle of fabrication or looking for a deal on ebay.

After about 5 minutes of poking around on ebay, I came across a small projector that i'm going to play around with to see how well it works out. The VVME-HTPED-V0 listed at under $200.

The specs of the projector in the ebay listing are as follows:
[list]
Projection System: RGB LCD Projection System
Projection Schemes: Front/Suspension
LCD Panel: 3.2" TFT LCD Panel
Resolution: Native Resolution: 640*480, Support Input Resolution: 1080P/1080i/720P/576P/576i/480P; support 640*480 to 1920*1080
Brightness(PeakValue): 1300 Lumens
Contrast ratio: 600 : 1
Lamp: 50W
Colors: 16.7 million
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 or 16:9(apply to TV/AV mode)
Optical Lens: Manual focus
Projection Distance: 2.45 - 5.15 meters
Image Size: 50 - 100 inches (in Diagonal)
Interface" Video, Y/PB/PR, Audio in, Audio out, VGA, TV, HDMI
Video System: PAL /NTSC
Audio Output: 2 built-in speakers, RCA * 2
TV Signal Input: 75 ohm Radio Frequency Signal Input (RF Input)
TV Signal System: PAL /NTSC /SECAM
Mechanical: Dimension(excluding lens and feet) 205mm(Length) * 160mm(Width) * 70mm(Height)
Weight: 2.5 kg
Projector Color: Red
Operating Temperature: 0 - 70 C (32~158 F)
Power Supply: AC: 110V-240V; 50HZ-60HZ
Power Consumption: 60W
[/list:u]
http://www.vvme.com/led-projector-hd-tv-wii-ps3-dvd-1080p-home-theater-hdmi-v04-p-294.html?cPath=67_75

Now I'm not sure if the ebay or the VVME website is wrong, but there seems to be a discrepancy in the maximum resolution. Listing claims full 1080P resolution (1920x1080 ), but the VVME website only claims (1024x768). I'll have to see for my self which is true. If it's not full 1080p... oh well, I've got a cheap projector. They have 3 other models to look at as well.

My other concerns:
1. Low wattage bulb. (60 W at 1300 lumen seems a bit low) and the few reviews I've seen comment that in lighted rooms it performs poorly. (my gaming room is dark though, so not too much of an issue.)
2. Mod-ability: If case 1 proves to be true, I might consider replacing the bulb and power supply on it. Depending on the manufacturing, I'll see if it's possible.
3. Throw distance: They claim 50" size at 1.9 m, which is fine for me. However i'm worried about the manual focus and probably cheap as hell optics on it.


Thoughts on it?

[BHawthorne]

Stay as far away as possible from anything less than 2000 Lumens. Look for the very least 1024x768 or 1280x800 native. Short throw lens with multi-projector is a must. Look for a lens throw anywhere between 0.49:1 and 0.71:1. BenQ and Optoma have a few ideal options with these specs. A realistic budget for something that you won't end up with buyer regret is $600-750 per projector.

Everything about the projector you listed sends up red flags for me. It's a very bad pick. Never trust when generic/off brand projector specs say 1080p, because scalers in projectors can scale to about any resolution. Make 100% sure what the native resolution is. It's the only resolution that matters. Those ebay-like listings are specifically written to be deceptive to prey upon the uninformed. Don't be a victim. :wink:

If you really want to compromise and go true entry level I would use nothing lesser spec than the $500 Optoma GT360. The resolution isn't all that great (800x600) but everything else about it is current and functional.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824219090

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-GameTime_GT360-projection-calculator-pro.htm

If you go with anything less than the GT360 the experience will be totally ruined for you with how compromised things will be. I realize the dream of a setup like this is very appealing, but as a person with a lot of experience with such systems please heed my suggestions for your own good. If it requires saving a bit longer in order to purchase proper projectors think of it as giving you more time to properly refine your screen design. I really want to see more builds out there, but please realize that specs are important to the success of the build.

[tet5uo]

Nice post, Brad.

I'm learning bits and pieces and slowly getting up the nerve and cash to set myself up something like this soon. Are those projectors you mentioned 120Hz? I think without the bezels in the way, I'd love to try 3d-surround. It's just too cross-eye-inducing to play 3d surround with bezels breaking the effect.

[BHawthorne]

Nice post, Brad.

I'm learning bits and pieces and slowly getting up the nerve and cash to set myself up something like this soon. Are those projectors you mentioned 120Hz? I think without the bezels in the way, I'd love to try 3d-surround. It's just too cross-eye-inducing to play 3d surround with bezels breaking the effect.

Yes, Optoma GT360, GT700 and GT720 are all DLP 3D ready. I have personally used NVIDIA 3D Vision Kit with the GT720 before. One thing I might note from my personal experience though is that NVIDIA 3D Vision is very picky. You need to force a display inf on the projectors that the NVIDIA driver will recognize. For me that meant forcing the Acer H5360 inf on the Optoma GT720 in the device manager. Mostly because the Acer inf was the only one I could dig up on the internet. The Optoma projectors are certified for NVIDIA 3D Vision but you need to find inf for them so the NVIDIA driver can recognize them. Without that, the NVIDIA driver won't recognize them as 3D Vision compatible even though they are certified to be. That and using VGA cable for the projector and not the HDMI in. That seems a bit quirky to me but whatever gets the job done. As these type of setups are not exactly standard, the most logical solutions aren't always the ones that work. I chalk up my experience in this post as learning through trial and error. :wink:

My moving on to projectors from years of LCD use were just the next logical step for me. I'm always on a quest to improve the immersiveness of my gaming experience. Doing away with LCDs, bezels and moving on to room sized 180 degree projection is a huge jump in immersion. There are down sides, but the downsides are shared by all projectors, not merely a specialized triple-projector setup like mine. I weigh both sides of the equation and for me projectors easily win out over even large 30" LCDs. Now if only there were cost effective 1080p short throw projectors in existence I'd be even happier right now. With the march of time and technology I'm sure entry level native 1080p will become a reality soon enough.

[BK_NC]

I'm also looking into a reasonable budget 3x projector setup vs a 3 montior setup.

I've been thinking about the Acer H5360 720p 3D-Ready DLP project as well as the Optoma GT700/720 projectors. Considering the Optoma HD20 1080p projector but I think I want 3D and will probably go with one of the first 2.

My question for Bhawthorne (or anyone) is why I would want a short throw projector for a 3 screen setup. It seems even at 4' throw distance the Optoma GT series will cast at least an 88" screen size for a single projector.

If I wanted a setup similar to what Yeek ( http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=20671&start=0 ) has with the 3x projector on a curved screen where each panel looks to be about 1 meter ( 3' ) wide, would I be better off with the Acer H5360 or even the Optoma HD20 so I'm better able to scale the size to my liking if I don't want a 3x 88" gigantic view from a short throw projector?

[BHawthorne]

I have personal experience with the Optoma GT700/GT720's. In my particular case I used them with the NVIDIA 3D Vision kit and the analog VGA connectors into the projector. I couldn't get them to work in 3D mode through the HDMI connector. Having used the GT720's I like them for what they are capable of in that price range. They have a good short-throw lens on them and would work good with a circular screen setup. Some might nitpick me using analog vga for 720p, but I didn't see any problem with picture clarity or any ghosting issues. It was worth it to just get 3D Vision working.

I'd really suggest a uniform circular screen over a segmented screen if you're going to use something like NTHUSIM or Warpalizer. It makes no sense to ruin the experience with screen panel segments. If you can, do a uniform curvature. The idea behind projection is to get away from issues like bezels and interruption in your viewing experience. Segmented panels defeat the purpose of edge blending and multi-projection.

You'll notice that in the link you provided his lens throw hurts his projection size considerably. That is because he;'s not using a short-throw projector type. Be mindful if you want a large immersive projection that short-throws are a must. For 720p I'd never suggest anything less than a 48" and nothing more than a 60" projection height. 48" is a simple baseline because most lumber comes in 48" by something sizes. I personally prefer 60" though because it's a good compromise between pixel size and full view immersion. You'll see people talk about size in diagonal like TVs but when I speak in terms of viewing size I'll always refer to them in the context of overall projection height achievable with a particular projector type.

My suggestion would be to look at Projector Central's projector calculator pro and the projectors you have in mind keep in mind the radius and diameter of the screen you want to achieve in relation to the lens throw of the projector.

The GT700/GT720 makes a good 720p baseline projector. I'm still looking for a good 1080p baseline projector though. Noone seems to make a proper 1080p short throw.

My next project will be 5x1P projection using entry level 1080p projectors. That opens a whole new can of worms though, because I'm going to have to retrofit enhanced cooling on the projectors to overcome the thermal problems with portrait mode on a projector. It'll definitely not be for the faint of heart. Projectors tend to burn up when rotated into portrait mode. The challenge is to make it work right in a consistent manner so future people can replicate that type of build too. There is method to my madness to want to do 5x1P projection. It will give the consumer access to 4kHD projection without a $100k pricetag. The goal is to emulate 4480x1920 (REDCODE RAW) resolution on the setup after proper edge blends. The next logical step for HD will be 2kHD and 4kHD in the consumer market with depreciation of 720p and 1080p. That won't happen for quite some time though.

[BK_NC]

Finally I found a GT720 triple setup in action in another thread you posted :D

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=20712

I like short throw for the portability of it in being able to set it up on a table in front of a wall for gaming or movie watching, but I don't think I would want a screen quite that wide and tall for racing on a 3x setup. But I'm guessing I could shrink the size by moving the projectors closer in even though on this setup they look to be pretty close to the screen.

I have checked out the calculator at projector central and it has given me a lot to think about.

Still I'm thinking hard about the Acer H5360 given the great reviews for it particularly for its 3D and its over $100 cheaper on Amazon than the Optoma GT700.

[BHawthorne]

Finally I found a GT720 triple setup in action in another thread you posted :D

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=20712

I like short throw for the portability of it in being able to set it up on a table in front of a wall for gaming or movie watching, but I don't think I would want a screen quite that wide and tall for racing on a 3x setup. But I'm guessing I could shrink the size by moving the projectors closer in even though on this setup they look to be pretty close to the screen.

I have checked out the calculator at projector central and it has given me a lot to think about.

Still I'm thinking hard about the Acer H5360 given the great reviews for it particularly for its 3D and its over $100 cheaper on Amazon than the Optoma GT700.

Yep, just bring the projection mounts in a bit closer. My GT720 screen examples has a projection height of 60". I'd go down to 48" or so and make a smaller radius screen. In that particular setup they're roughly 9 foot away from the surface of the screen.

[BK_NC]

Again, great setup.

As part of the setup I'm thinking of doing with the 3x 3D projectors, I was going to use a Radeon 6850 graphics card since it can do 3 displays with one card as opposed to Nvidia which needs SLI for it. However, I've been looking over AMD's HD3D site and googling about Eyefinity in 3D on multiple monitors/projectors. So far I can't find any info on whether Eyefinity and HD3D can work together.

In your dealings with AMD, do you know if it works or is my only option at present for 3D 3x-screen gaming to go with Nvidia Surround.

[BHawthorne]

Again, great setup.

As part of the setup I'm thinking of doing with the 3x 3D projectors, I was going to use a Radeon 6850 graphics card since it can do 3 displays with one card as opposed to Nvidia which needs SLI for it. However, I've been looking over AMD's HD3D site and googling about Eyefinity in 3D on multiple monitors/projectors. So far I can't find any info on whether Eyefinity and HD3D can work together.

In your dealings with AMD, do you know if it works or is my only option at present for 3D 3x-screen gaming to go with Nvidia Surround.

Actually, I'm in agreement. If you want to do stereoscopic 3D, your best bet is using NVIDIA. AMD still has sync issues between the projectors. I'd use something like SLI GTX570 or Tri-SLI GTX570 and three Optoma GT700/720's. When I do stereoscopic 3D, I use my NVIDIA GTX470 Tri-SLI setup.

In both October and January, we scrapped using 3D shutter glasses for the AMD Eyefinity projection demos. for the October demo we even had XpanD 3D provide a case of glasses, but could never get the projectors to sync right. As that wasn't part of the scope of my involvement on the demos, no idea if anything has improved on that front, or even what the root issues is. Not sure if it was driver related or adapter related.

[vazh3r]

I'm currently to get a projector myself but I'm confused on what I should look for and what projector would be better to get. I'm looking to watch movies and play games from my PC and xbox on the projector.

BHawthorne, you was saying to stay away from less than 2000 Lumens. Why is that? What is the lens throw?

I was first thinking about getting the Optoma HD20 but it only has 1700 Lumens. If I can get a cheaper projector and still get good quality. I watched a few youtube videos of the ACER H5360 and it seems good and much cheaper.

[BHawthorne]

I'm currently to get a projector myself but I'm confused on what I should look for and what projector would be better to get. I'm looking to watch movies and play games from my PC and xbox on the projector.

BHawthorne, you was saying to stay away from less than 2000 Lumens. Why is that? What is the lens throw?

I was first thinking about getting the Optoma HD20 but it only has 1700 Lumens. If I can get a cheaper projector and still get good quality. I watched a few youtube videos of the ACER H5360 and it seems good and much cheaper.

What size room will it go in? Can you ceiling mount the projector? What size projection are you shooting for? I'm assuming you're wanting single projector? Many of my suggestions are specific to multi-projector. The HD20 would be good entry level 1080p. You just need to be more mindful of the screen material or screen paint used on a lower lumens projector screen.

[vazh3r]

I'll be putting the projector in my living room which is 14x18ft and was planning to mount it on the ceiling. The size projection I'm looking for is between 80' - 100'. I was also planning to get a projector screen and mount on the wall. I don't think I'll have any problems with the lower lumens projectors because I'll keep the windows covered. 8) I'm also planning to create custom room lighting like this youtube video.

[vazh3r]

Also Newegg is having a promo with the Acer H5360 projector with free shipping. So would this be a good starter project for this cheap price?

[BHawthorne]

Also Newegg is having a promo with the Acer H5360 projector with free shipping. So would this be a good starter project for this cheap price?

Yes, definitely a good starter projector for the price. I just wish 1080p pricing would go down a bit. 720p is ok, but it's more pixelated. I'm a DIY type, so I prefer a larger screen than that. But for what you're doing it should be a good entry level system.

[vazh3r]

I have been reading reviews on the Acer H5360 and most of the reviews are good. If I had a good amount of money I would get a 1080p projector but after reading those reviews and the price. You can't beat it. I can always upgrade when I get more money. :D

[BHawthorne]

I have been reading reviews on the Acer H5360 and most of the reviews are good. If I had a good amount of money I would get a 1080p projector but after reading those reviews and the price. You can't beat it. I can always upgrade when I get more money. :D

Yep, for the money, you can't beat that price for 720p single projector use and 3D stereoscopic compatibility new.

[vazh3r]

I got my Acer H5360 projector and I'm pretty happy with it. When I first got the projector I set up it for a 100' inch screen on my wall. It looked awesome; the size and quality of the image. After that is when I noticed my eyes hurting. It feels like my eyes are stressed from watching the projector. So I did google search and really didn't find very much information. But some people was saying to turn down the brightness, make the screen size smaller, or get a ND filter. Other people was saying they are sensitive to a single chip projector or the color wheel.

Needless to say, I'm confused on what I should do. Now would the texture of the wall cause a problem? I used my LCD monitors on my computer and I know that having high contrast will hurt my eyes so I turned down the contrast on the projector as well but that doesn't seem to do anything.

EDIT: I forgot to say anything about the refresh rate. I was playing my xbox 360, 1080p @ 60 Hz and I eyes was hurting after. Could the refresh rate cause the problem?

[BHawthorne]

I only know from my personal experience, but it can cause strain on your eyes with extended use. Then again LCDs can too. I'm more of a DIY type of person so I have no true formal training in anything like projection optics. That would be something better answered by an optician or eye doctor IMHO. If anything the faster the hz setting and the sharper the contrast the better. I'm not really qualified to give advice on that type of things though. I'm just a guy that builds interesting projects in my spare time. :wink:

[vazh3r]

Well I just went to the Eye doctor and he said my eyes are in great shape. I guess it just comes down to playing with the settings and see what works.