Widescreen Gaming Forum

But I'm talking about normal2x vs "none".
You're saying the game is as it always looked with "normal2x". Then why is "none" called "none"? It suggests nothing is being done, and THAT is the way the game looks naturally.
And yes I'm aware of what is scaling the game. That was original aim of thread - to determine whether I should do scaling via Fullresolution field in Dosbox, or through my gpu drivers in windows.
If normal2x is just a pixel doubler (and normal3x a pixel tripler), then they should look exactly the same as when setting the resolution to double or triple the original, correct?
I don't think they do. I'll check again.

none is equal to "normal1x" so to speak.
and no normal2x shouldn't look exactly the same as setting the resolution to double
when setting the resolution as double the historical original resolution (along with "none") you still use some sort of scaler which will undoubtedly do some sort of math to calcultate the nearest color match to input in additional pixels which were not present in the original image...

that's why somehow it's a two-step scaling procedure ... with the scaler option being a sort of "pre-scaling"

if normal2x is doubling each pixel, why is the end result not the same as doubling the resolution?

you say it still scales using "some sort of math"

wouldn't the math simply be copy each pixel once in each direction to make a 2x2 pixel block?

You're saying the game is as it always looked with "normal2x". Then why is "none" called "none"? It suggests nothing is being done, and THAT is the way the game looks naturally.

Nothing is being done... as far as DOSBox is concerned. But if you play in fullscreen, your monitor can't display a 320x200 image natively, so your drivers are scaling it up. DOSBox isn't responsible for what your drivers do - when DOSBox is set to "none," that means DOSBox itself performs no scaling.

Try playing in windowed mode with the scaler set to "none" and windowresolution set to "original." That will remove scaling from the equation, and show you what the game looks like naturally.

if normal2x is doubling each pixel, why is the end result not the same as doubling the resolution?

My guess is that normal2x is performed by software, while doubling the resolution invokes GPU scaling.

you're saying that any changes to EITHER resolution field, window or fullscreen, invoke use of GPU scaling?

(whereas any changes from "none" on the scaling field are software operations/software scaling)

you're saying that any changes to EITHER resolution field, window or fullscreen, invoke use of GPU scaling?

That's my guess. I'm pretty sure that if the GPU gets involved in one, it gets involved in the other.

You might try asking on the DOSBox forum about the technical differences. I looked myself, and using 640x400 resolution with no scaler does seem to provide a subtle "filtered" look that normal2x does not.

Furthermore, if the resolution field is not equal to your native res, then going fullscreen will invoke GPU scaling anyway. Only it's your drivers that invoke it instead of DOSBox.

So, let's say you set fullscreen resolution to 800x600, but leave the scaler off. What will happen, if I understand it correctly, is first, DOSBox will make your GPU scale 320x200 up to 800x600, and then try to display 800x600 fullscreen. And then your drivers will make the GPU scale 800x600 up to whatever your native resolution is. Incidentally, this should cause black bars on all four sides, if aspect scaling is enabled both times.

shouldn't there only be black bars on 2 sides (left and right) if you use your gpu's aspect scaling? that's my experience.

And yes I agree with your ideas about what's going on, if DosBox truly is using GPU scaling for either of the 2 resolution fields.

I have compared the same rez on full and windowed DosBox modes, and it appears the same, so the same scaling algorithms (the GPU's?) are applying to both.

The best way to tell would be to compare "original" resolution & fullscreen gpu scaling enabled in drivers to
"(same rez as your native rez)" resolution & no gpu scaling in your drivers

If it looks the same, that proves gpu scaling is being done whenever you change the resolutions in dosbox from original. If different, something else is afoot.


However, I can't test this because my drivers/gpu doesn't support a resolution as low as "original", at least for the games I've been working with. 800x600 is the lowest desktop resolution available to me.

So when I have original under fullscreen and no scaling for dosbox set, I get a 800x600 area pictureboxed, and within that, a 400x300 game image in the top left corner. enabling gpu scaling at that point gives me a scaled up 800x600 area, so the game is still a quarter of that in the top left and can't really be compared.


edit: cranky you said you left on normal2x, and then had your gpu scale up the image to your display. but if your gpu is going to be doing some scaling calculations anyways, why not have that the only thing done to the image, and set scaler to "none" ?

shouldn't there only be black bars on 2 sides (left and right) if you use your gpu's aspect scaling? that's my experience.

Normally, yes. But in that scenario I described, GPU scaling gets used *twice*. The first time it's 320x200->800x600, and black bars are added to the top and bottom. The second time it's 800x600->screen native, and black bars are added to the left and right.

edit: cranky you said you left on normal2x, and then had your gpu scale up the image to your display. but if your gpu is going to be doing some scaling calculations anyways, why not have that the only thing done to the image, and set scaler to "none" ?

To make the image look less filtered, I think. Normal2x + GPU scaling looks a bit sharper to me than just GPU scaling.

Oh, I always have aspect correction turned on, so all those Mode 13h 320x200 games are always made 4:3 anyways.

and I agree it does make high contrast things like text sharper, that's for sure. i found that particular thing often better on normal2x, vs none.

here's another question.

why don't GPU drivers have options for incremental scaling - something between maxing out the image to your monitor, and leaving it original in the center?

for example, I don't mind very thin black bars on the top and bottom of a 4:3 image, if I could scale something to 2048x1536 on this 30" display

you expect them to support old gaming ? sorry but :lol: on this one
they don't even always correctly support current scaling options or even new features such as EF

newer games are played at fullscreen res if the person knows how to go in the option menu at all or at default install res in most cases :mrgreen:
they don't even notice that everything is stretched/distorted :mrgreen: :mrgreen: (4/3 res on 16/10 or 16/9 monitor)