Widescreen Gaming Forum

It's official, the game industry has fallen in love with regression:
http://weblogs.variety.com/the_cut_scene/2009/11/dedicated-servers-and-rage-news-you-probably-dont-want-to-hear.html

That said, he realizes the affinity many PC gamers have for them – and is glad “Rage” won’t be leading the charge away from them.

“The great thing is we won’t have to be a pioneer on that,” he says. “We’ll see how it works out for everyone else.”

My favorite excerpt from the Carmack interview is

...but Carmack indicated he believed the servers are something of a remnant of the early days of PC gaming.

It's really only a "remnant" if you don't have a better solution yet. And there isn't one.

Not quite as bad as the Modern Warfare 2 fiasco - the MP part is not exactly Rage's most anticipated feature, right ? Still, to read what the big guys in the industry think about PC gaming is often scary and/or depressing. And they've been sharing their thoughts a lot lately.

The move away from dedicated servers for non-MMOs should not suprise anyone.

The move away from dedicated servers for non-MMOs should not suprise anyone.

Can you elaborate?

Control, $$$, efficiency, etc.

Think of it from a business standpoint.

My favorite excerpt from the Carmack interview is

...but Carmack indicated he believed the servers are something of a remnant of the early days of PC gaming.

It's really only a "remnant" if you don't have a better solution yet. And there isn't one.

That's sort of subjective though... the vast majority of the market supports p2p matchmaking.

[quote]My favorite excerpt from the Carmack interview is

...but Carmack indicated he believed the servers are something of a remnant of the early days of PC gaming.

It's really only a "remnant" if you don't have a better solution yet. And there isn't one.

That's sort of subjective though... the vast majority of the market supports p2p matchmaking.

Depends which market though, the gamers market as a whole sure. The average person that will spend atleast 10 hours playing the game online on PC? Which we could define as the Online FPS PC game market, sure as hell not. I'm sure there are plenty that don't care what so ever they just want to play their game, probably many moreso than either group that likes or dislikes p2p matchmaking. But the group that opposes p2p matchmaking would easily come second. By a landslide.

[quote][quote]My favorite excerpt from the Carmack interview is

...but Carmack indicated he believed the servers are something of a remnant of the early days of PC gaming.

It's really only a "remnant" if you don't have a better solution yet. And there isn't one.

That's sort of subjective though... the vast majority of the market supports p2p matchmaking.

Depends which market though, the gamers market as a whole sure. The average person that will spend atleast 10 hours playing the game online on PC? Which we could define as the Online FPS PC game market, sure as hell not. I'm sure there are plenty that don't care what so ever they just want to play their game, probably many moreso than either group that likes or dislikes p2p matchmaking. But the group that opposes p2p matchmaking would easily come second. By a landslide.

The mass market, the markey they make 100 million dollar games for.

The mass market, the markey they make 100 million dollar games for.

Yeah... I've since read up on Rage a little bit more I didn't realize that it was so console-centric.

That mass market is not online PC gamers though.
I think this quote says it best.

Either do a proper PC port of your game or don't port it at all, enough of half-assed console ports. People who want one-click solutions for these games don't play on PC, and they won't, even if you "streamline" the experience for them, they play on consoles already and thats not gonna change. People who play on PC want dedicated servers, responsive controls and smooth movement, console commands, proper menus and UI, adjustable FOV, customization, mods, tools and are willing to put up with the inconveniences of the PC platform for these. If you don't provide the above mentioned things for an FPS game, there is no reason to buy the PC version of your game. I thought id of all devs understood this. If they wanna go the way of consoles thats fine, probably a good business decision, but at least they shouldn't act like they still care about the PC community, and sell us a console game Randy Pitchford style.

I guess i'm just burned by buying games like Gears of War PC or Borderlands from ex-pc developers and getting a half-assed port. All the talk about the 360 being the lead SKU, controls tailored for gamepads and now this just rubs me the wrong way.

they make 100 million dollar games for

Where are these 100 million dollar games and can I play them?

I think this quote says it best.

I don't... at all. Borderlands, Modern Warfare 2... they are still a lot better on PC than console. They are still great games I get to play on my PC that I would probably never play were they not ported.

Maybe it's your preference but I don't agree with that kind of view. MW2 better on PC than on consoles? The way I see it, it's no different than playing on the console anyway. I mean, there's no distinct advantage, other than being able to control via mouse+keyboard, to playing on the PC than the console. I just don't see it at all. I can't speak for Borderlands though...

Here's how I interpreted what IW wants their PC players to do: IW wants me to jump off the same cliff that the Xbox 360 players are jumping from, saying that it'll offer me a fair, balanced, and better playing (or jumping) experience than before. All without a parachute. I don't care if they offered me a million dollars to do it. I ain't jumping.

I don't care if I get the game for free. I won't play it. I won't install it. I will simply send it back.

Maybe it's your preference but I don't agree with that kind of view. MW2 better on PC than on consoles? The way I see it, it's no different than playing on the console anyway. I mean, there's no distinct advantage, other than being able to control via mouse+keyboard, to playing on the PC than the console. I just don't see it at all. I can't speak for Borderlands though...

Mouse and keyboard control is a pretty huge deal... also, much better graphics... also, open platform means tweaks and hacks, even if they try not to allow them.

There are a lot more reasons to game on PC than dedicated servers. I am a diehard PC gamer and have never cared one way or another about dedicated servers because I have never been a multiplayer gamer.

[quote]Maybe it's your preference but I don't agree with that kind of view. MW2 better on PC than on consoles? The way I see it, it's no different than playing on the console anyway. I mean, there's no distinct advantage, other than being able to control via mouse+keyboard, to playing on the PC than the console. I just don't see it at all. I can't speak for Borderlands though...

Mouse and keyboard control is a pretty huge deal... also, much better graphics... also, open platform means tweaks and hacks, even if they try not to allow them.

There are a lot more reasons to game on PC than dedicated servers. I am a diehard PC gamer and have never cared one way or another about dedicated servers because I have never been a multiplayer gamer.

Yeah you go have fun with that.

Just because "you" don't need these options, doesn't mean developers should be allowed to drop them altogether.

[quote][quote]Maybe it's your preference but I don't agree with that kind of view. MW2 better on PC than on consoles? The way I see it, it's no different than playing on the console anyway. I mean, there's no distinct advantage, other than being able to control via mouse+keyboard, to playing on the PC than the console. I just don't see it at all. I can't speak for Borderlands though...

Mouse and keyboard control is a pretty huge deal... also, much better graphics... also, open platform means tweaks and hacks, even if they try not to allow them.

There are a lot more reasons to game on PC than dedicated servers. I am a diehard PC gamer and have never cared one way or another about dedicated servers because I have never been a multiplayer gamer.

Yeah you go have fun with that.

Just because "you" don't need these options, doesn't mean developers should be allowed to drop them altogether.

All my post said was there are a ton more reaons to be a PC gamer than dedicated servers, I didn't say it was ok to ditch them.

Control, $$$, efficiency, etc.

Think of it from a business standpoint.

This is it, really.

It doesn't cost them money for a P2P solution - or rather, it doesn't cost them anywhere near as much... it doesn't even really cost the user, as long as they're not paying a monthly fee to game, and would have an internet connection anyway. What the devs are doing is making the ISPs pick up the bill.

And as many ISPs in the UK (in particular) are ultra hostile toward P2P or anything that increases load on their networks beyond basic web and e-mail - they even complain bitterly about the cost of streaming video sites like YouTube!

I know for a fact that a couple of UK ISPs now block Steam completely during what they call 'peak' hours (ie: between about 7am and 2am, so there is a five hour window you can game on Steam with) so I can't wait until more start doing it, and there is an enormous backlash against P2P type gaming. Bet it'll happen in the US pretty soon, too.

Imagine what would happen if an ISP blocked XBox Live?

I have been gaming on a console for some time (and for a period I played on the PC for only certain types of RTS games). I loved the Halo series, GoW, etc... I played CoD4 and liked it on the Xbox, and I played for quite a bit. There is some major truth in having a problem with the p2p style from a PC standpoint, and I totally get why the PC gamer would be annoyed at such a thing. I am annoyed for all of you now that I am switching sides again (now that I have the money to have the higher end, I plan to play the good way!)

I am trying to imagine how Starcraft would have faired had it been P2P.

I actually find myself quite annoyed at all the "suck it up PC gamer" comments coming from many websites. It just gets me irked.

The PC games really are a different breed, there are certain things that just make a game good for PC that way.

I think what I am getting at, is that since games have become something you can make LOTS of money off, that I find myself annoyed that it has become such, all about money, how much they can squeeze out of gamers. AND WE FALL FOR IT!

See Hollywood, how many half done movies are approved? And guess what, they are HORRIBLE! What happened to the craft? Now we just make money for the man at the top? How much do these people make??? Think about it. Games are doing the same thing, all of the HALF DONE GAMES, that are just horrible. GAME DEVS!! Get a grip, take pride in your work. If you were building a house for me and it was half done, I'd sue them. But hey, what's the difference.

Imagine what would happen if an ISP blocked XBox Live?

You ever seen that Simpson's episode with Bill Gates? Remember how he fixed that problem?