Widescreen Gaming Forum

http://store.steampowered.com/sub/2103/

This is pretty cool news. Jedi Knight 1&2 were particularly awesome. I'm curious to see how JK1 turns out - it has a ton of problems in Vista. It also originally used redbook audio for music, which doesn't translate well to digital downloads. I'm thinking best case scenario is they update the game to work on modern systems with full 3D acceleration and to play mp3 music instead of redbook. Worst case scenario is they change nothing and don't include any music (like what Activision did with Quake 1&2 despite workable solutions clearly existing).

Lucasarts upgraded the previous Steam/D2D titles, so I bet they do here as well.

Not really upgraded, but unofficially patched to make them work better on modern machines. For instance, the old SCUMM games launch in a window with no obvious emulation and have filters applied. Republic Commando now allows bump mapping to work with newer video cards. Someone told me KotOR was tweaked to prevent the somewhat common crash problems, and this might bear out because 10 hours in I haven't crashed once.

So I assume they will change some things to make these versions run perfectly.

Great news indeed. I think I actually have the entire DF/JK series on retail discs...

That reminds me of my early x86 PC gaming days. X-Wing, configuring EMS/XMS memory in DOS...good times. :)

The Windows SCUMM engine you see was actually done by Aaron Giles of MAME fame, and they're a couple of years old too - it originally popped up in retail compilation packs released in Europe in 2002 and later.

Someone told me KotOR was tweaked to prevent the somewhat common crash problems, and this might bear out because 10 hours in I haven't crashed once.

Patched or unpatched KotOR, I never once had a crash. KotOR2 and Mass Effect, on the other hand...

MP3 music and video fixes, Lucasarts! If I can get the whole Lucasarts back catalogue on Steam, it might actually make me order something off it...

...oh. And TIE Fighter "2"! ;)

Lucasarts upgraded the previous Steam/D2D titles, so I bet they do here as well.

Only the old adventure games, which got a Windows compatible SCUMM engine, everything else that was Windows native to being with was put on the service is untouched.

Someone told me KotOR was tweaked to prevent the somewhat common crash problems, and this might bear out because 10 hours in I haven't crashed once.

Nah it's the same as the original disc version. Perhaps what was being referred to is that Steam version's config file, by default, has a line to disable a feature that commonly causes problems on newer systems; but it's nothing that wasn't available in the disc version, it just wasn't disabled by default.

And if they actually did make changes to the executable you wouldn't be experiencing them anyway if you're using the no-CD executable for our widescreen solution ;)

So I assume they will change some things to make these versions run perfectly.

Unfortunately, based on the above, I'm assuming they won't. I just can't see them paying a team to dig out, relearn, fix, QA, and rebuild the ages old (in software terms) source code for these games. Hell, chances are there's no one at the company who even knows how to compile the code anymore (what libraries are needed, etc.) or even where it is because the organization, archiving, and documentation practices at game companies are typically so poor. I figure the only thing special about the Steam versions is that they'll automatically include DosBox for the original Dark Forces like id did with the old Doom games.

I don't see how you can say that.

Whether the windows SCUMM emulation already existed or not, they did use the most modern way to play the games possible.

Even if it was one line of code, they did pay attention to KotOR and change something needed.

And you didn't mention Republic Commando, which I know works better now because I saw screens of what it looked like previously on a modern card.

It could easily be that Jedi Knight is coming later to make more in-depth changes than those made to earlier released titles.

i have my retail of dark forces 2 somewhere. I wonder if the steam version supports mods.

Bump Mapping was simply disabled rather than fixed. There are threads and screenshots on the Steam Republic Commando forum showing this. They had to do something with it because it was a game breaker on 8800 series cards and newer. So if they did nothing they'd have had a right mess on their hands with angry customers.

Bump Mapping was simply disabled rather than fixed. There are threads and screenshots on the Steam Republic Commando forum showing this. They had to do something with it because it was a game breaker on 8800 series cards and newer. So if they did nothing they'd have had a right mess on their hands with angry customers.

I read through that thread and don't recall anyone confirming it was disabled. Actually, I remember people saying it was still broken, and then I tested it and didn't have the anomalies they talked about.

I'll have to do comparison pics to be sure.

I don't see how you can say that.

I say it because I have some (admittedly minor, but more than most) personal experience with the atmosphere and practices at game development companies. No publisher is going to fund someone digging out, relearning, and rewriting the source code for games that haven't been touched in 3 years or more. Especially on games where no semblance of the original dev team is still working for the company. Plus it's entirely possible (and sometimes even likely depending on the company) that they don't even have the original source code for the games anymore.

All the "fixes" they've done for the Windows native games have been limited to doing common config file tweaks that were already possible with the original versions. Republic Commando included.

I can confim bump mapping is disabled in Republic Commando. It's actually disabled at the driver level in newer nVidia drivers, it has nothing to do with the Steam version of the game. You can select "High" in game and it doesn't crash anymore and it's not corrupted, but you don't actually get any bump mapping at tall - they just removed it.

---Update---
Just saw your post over on the Steam forum which includes a screenshot. And yup, hate to break it to you, but bumpmapping isn't actually enabled. I know it says it's enabled in the options, but it doesn't actually work. You're missing the bumping detail on the character's armor.
---

Easiest way to tell if bumpmapping is actually working is by the "speaker" details inside the helmet. If it's working they should look raised like this:


If it's actually disabled you get a flat texture like this:


You can also see the difference's in the character armor if you look closely; the ridges aren't as pronouced. It's very subtle in a screenshot, but much more obvious in motion. I'll echo what some of the people on the Steam forums have said. If you played it years ago when the bumpmapping was actually working properly, the differences are fairly obvious when you compare to new cards running the game with bump mapping "enabled".

Well bummer.

I still have hope, though.

Hey, how does that pic seem to be Hor+ widescreen? I thought Commando only stretched?

No publisher is going to fund someone digging out, relearning, and rewriting the source code for games that haven't been touched in 3 years or more.

It's rare, but it has happened. Take the original Half-Life, for instance - it was 6 years old when Steam came out, and the Steam version made several significant engine upgrades, including using mp3 audio instead of redbook, widescreen support, and better Internet play capabilities.

And for that matter LucasArts funded Aaron Giles doing precisely that for their SCUMM games in 2002.

Anyway, the games should hit Steam today. It does seem unlikely that LucasArts would put in more than minimum effort for JK1, but it's not impossible.

It's rare, but it has happened. Take the original Half-Life, for instance - it was 6 years old when Steam came out, and the Steam version made several significant engine upgrades, including using mp3 audio instead of redbook, widescreen support, and better Internet play capabilities.

6 Years old yes, But it was patched less than a year before the steam patch, The people that know the engine still work there and were still actively working on the engine (and its derivative the Source Engine.)
They also had to edit it quite abit to work with steam, the protocol, the server browser things like that. So they probably had a list of cost effective upgrades that they wanted to do to the engine while they still had it wide open, before abandoning it.

Whens the last time that they touched JK or JK2?

There's probably a good example for you're "It's rare, but it has happened." But I just don't feel that Half-Life is it.

Hey, how does that pic seem to be Hor+ widescreen? I thought Commando only stretched?

The helmet elements stretch, but otherwise the game is vert-, not hor+, but at least it's aspect correct.

No publisher is going to fund someone digging out, relearning, and rewriting the source code for games that haven't been touched in 3 years or more.

It's rare, but it has happened. Take the original Half-Life, for instance - it was 6 years old when Steam came out, and the Steam version made several significant engine upgrades, including using mp3 audio instead of redbook, widescreen support, and better Internet play capabilities.

Ah but Valve is a developer, not a publisher, and they're largely an aberration in the game industry anyway. They're constantly working on and improving their games. They've also have a mostly unheard of amount of employee stability in an industry where it's rare for a person to be working for the same entity for more than 4 years. Their games have never been "mothballed" and the necessary talent and experience to work on them is still there. Of course it also helps that they control the IP for the their games unlike the typical publisher/developer setup.

They're not comparable to Lucasarts or other typical publishers (EA, Activision, etc) which hemorrhage talent and don't properly support their games when they're new, let alone 5+ years old.

For a typical publisher type like Lucasarts to dig out a mothballed game and work on it is almost unheard of unless it's for a complete remake and not just some minor fixes. The time and money involved with bringing in an all new team and getting them up to speed on old, untouched code (if they even still have it!) is just too great for games that consumers expect to pay $5-10 for - especially when they can release as is and get people to buy them anyway.

They also had to edit it quite abit to work with steam, the protocol, the server browser things like that.

They didn't *have* to do any of that. They could have just slapped the WON version as-is but with an encrypted .exe, like they do with almost every non-Valve game. Singleplayer mode would have worked more or less.

There's probably a good example for you're "It's rare, but it has happened." But I just don't feel that Half-Life is it.

How about the LucasArts re-releases in 2002?

Ah but Valve is a developer, not a publisher,

LucasArts was both developer and publisher of all their SCUMM adventure games, of JK1 (but not JK2), and most recently, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed.

They also had to edit it quite abit to work with steam, the protocol, the server browser things like that.

They didn't *have* to do any of that. They could have just slapped the WON version as-is but with an encrypted .exe, like they do with almost every non-Valve game. Singleplayer mode would have worked more or less.

There's probably a good example for you're "It's rare, but it has happened." But I just don't feel that Half-Life is it.

How about the LucasArts re-releases in 2002?

Ah but Valve is a developer, not a publisher,

LucasArts was both developer and publisher of all their SCUMM adventure games, of JK1 (but not JK2), and most recently, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed.

WON.net is not even alive anymore. They could not have just done that. Yes Singleplayer would have worked just fine, but what about the over 100,000 players that the goldsrc based Multiplayer games had daily?

I'm sure they could have just converted the old school server browser over, but they really wanted to show what steam could do for when half-life 2 launched Not to mention stress test it, The HL2 launch issues could have been much worse had they not had many GoldSrc Players go steam prior to its launch.

Singleplayer would have worked just fine, but what about the over 100,000 players that the goldsrc based Multiplayer games had daily?

Weren't the pre-Steam versions all free mods for Half-Life? They could have easily given those players the middle finger - Valve never had an obligation to provide a successor to WON.

Singleplayer would have worked just fine, but what about the over 100,000 players that the goldsrc based Multiplayer games had daily?

Weren't the pre-Steam versions all free mods for Half-Life? They could have easily given those players the middle finger - Valve never had an obligation to provide a successor to WON.

Well the big 3 that valve bought, they were selling WON copys of. So Counter-Strike, Day Of Defeat and Team Fortress Classic. They sold boxed copys of CS and DoD, And TFC was included with half life along with a few other multiplayer games (Ricochet is one that comes to mind)

I fully agree that they had no obligation to continue their online service, no one does (aside from pay2play based games like World of Warcraft, but they could easily just cut off payment methods and shut down the servers when everyones time runs out.)

But considering CS alone had over 200,000 players every day merely 2 years ago, and 250,000 3 years ago. It would have been outright stupid of them to stop supporting them. Its one thing for EA to shut down online servers of games that have a mere few thousand players (if that.) compared to valves few hundread thousand.

Now im sure if they had not started steam, we would not have seen the overhaul when WON died. GoldSrc on steam was more about boosting the popularity of steam rather than replacing WON.net.

And it's here!

$20 for the whole thing.
$5 for Dark Forces
$5 for JK1
$3 for MoTS
$10 for JK2
$10 for Jedi Academy

Sadly, from looking at forums, JK1 has *not* had any meaningful update. There is no music, and enabling 3D acceleration is still known to cause problems.