Widescreen Gaming Forum

I have a kick ass rig, Core 2 Extreme 3Ghz(45nm), 4GB RAM, Asus Muximus Formula mobo, 750GB HDD and an 8800GTX video card with a Zalman heatsink/fan.

me being the nice guy that i am, i'm giving away my video card to my best friend cuz he's building his PC and can't afford a high end video card. Which leads me to my next point, i need to buy a kick ass high-end video card but i have been out of the PC gaming loop for a while and dunno what's new....last i heard the latest thing is the nVidia GTX 280.

now what is the difference between the GTX 280, 9 series cards and the GX2(with 2 GPUs)?

i also want want a quiet card and one that doesn't heat up, do they make video cards in 45nm GPU? or at least a cool GPU.

so for you PC gurus, what do you recommend? and what is this i hear about 8800 GT out performing the 8800 GTX??? WTF?

please keep in mind i need a cool and quiet card yet powerfull!

thanks!

edit: should i worry about the new DX10.1 and DX11? do games support them yet?

My 9800GX2 from EVGA tops out at 70C and is not really that loud.

Nvidia is going to be coming out with quite a few cards through the end of '09. A good way to go is get a GTX 260 OCed or OC it yourself, then if you like the other stuff they come out with better, like the GT300 DX11 models, you can swap it out without huge loss. You could also add another GTX 260 if you find the others aren't to your liking.

I've seen GTX 260s for under $200 and some at 650MHz for only $220.

My 9800GX2 from EVGA tops out at 70C and is not really that loud.

what watt is your PSU? mine is 650 or 750....can't remember, i hope it mine can handle the GX2 since it's 100 watts extra over the 8800GTX power consumption.

whats the worst thing that could happen if my PSU is not powerful enough?

Nvidia is going to be coming out with quite a few cards through the end of '09. A good way to go is get a GTX 260 OCed or OC it yourself, then if you like the other stuff they come out with better, like the GT300 DX11 models, you can swap it out without huge loss. You could also add another GTX 260 if you find the others aren't to your liking.

I've seen GTX 260s for under $200 and some at 650MHz for only $220.

good idea....GT300 DX11 is tempting. i might get GTX 260 OCed or just get the GTX 280.

are the GX2 that much more powerful than the GTX 280? as in double performance? and do the GTX 280 overheat like the GX2? (i assume not?)

I am using a 610 watt PSU with 12 USB devices (~4 full powered) 4 HDD 1 ODD and 5 fans. But it it a high quality PSU.

Honestly if you draw too much from your PSU the only thing that should happen unless you have bad components all round is damage to the power supply.

I'd go with a GTX 260 or an HD 4870, don't get the 280 it's not worth the bang for the buck.

I think my 4850 with DX 10.1 hardware compatibility will last me until the DX 11 era arrives. Right now I can run all my games on all max, so I figure I shouldn't be in too much danger.

It would be a good idea to wait and see how nVIDIA approaches the GT300 release. I'm sure that when those are released, the GTX x60 model (or whatever they'll term the second best model) would be a great buy - here's to hoping for another 6600GT :)

In terms of 8800GT vs. GTX stock for stock, the GTX is a better card, but pretty much everyone knows that for the price that you get a GT for, it's a better buy (I have one). On my XFX model I installed an Accelero S1 + Turbo Module cooler combo, and it's performed wonderfully.

As for heat "issues" with the GT200 models, my GTX280 Superclocked idles at 60°C and loads at 88-90°C on the dot with everything stock and auto fan control. With my OC (670/1458/1188) and 100% fan, I have it idling at 51°C. Under UT3 I have a maximum of 60°C. Assassin's Creed drives it up to 70°C. Crysis pushes it to 83-85°C. The GTX280 is marginally a better card, notwithstanding SLI issues if you're prone to those. If you have a huge monitor, the GTX cards are superior (double the memory interface bandwidth, and all that). For reference I run everything at 1680x1050 and maxed except for Crysis/Crysis Warhead where AA is off. 650W PSU, btw; 52A on the +12V rail.

My friend's two 260s (FTW edition) in SLI heat up about the same, but he's got a better and bigger case than I do.

I think the best card for the money is the ATI 4850, you can find them for about $150

Nothing touches that price vs performance ratio.

I mean I have two of them for $300 and thats easily able to max out any game at 1920x1200. Even just a single 4850 was letting me play the most demanding game yet on my system maxed out.

Crysis DX9 1920x1080 all Very High was in the 30's and thats good for Crysis :P

I know the market has shifted some since I was price hunting but I think the GTX260 is still quite a bit more, and I know the 4870 is about $50 or $60 more than the 4850, and thats a 25% increase in cost when the card is only about 10% faster (and the 4850's overclock like demons)

thanks for the info. i forgot to mention, i do have a 24" monitor with a resolution of 1920x1200 so yes do run my games in that resolution, ie i need a card that can handle it.


GTX280 sounds tempting.

EDIT: do games make use of GX2 cards or do they have to be developed for them?

The drivers have to support it, the game can be developed to work well with SLI or CF but its mostly the drivers that make the difference not the games developers.

GTX280 is at a bad price point unless you found one with some kind of massive sale.

Its just like the 4850 vs 4870 big price increase for small boost in performance.

[quote]Nvidia is going to be coming out with quite a few cards through the end of '09. A good way to go is get a GTX 260 OCed or OC it yourself, then if you like the other stuff they come out with better, like the GT300 DX11 models, you can swap it out without huge loss. You could also add another GTX 260 if you find the others aren't to your liking.

I've seen GTX 260s for under $200 and some at 650MHz for only $220.

good idea....GT300 DX11 is tempting. i might get GTX 260 OCed or just get the GTX 280.

are the GX2 that much more powerful than the GTX 280? as in double performance? and do the GTX 280 overheat like the GX2? (i assume not?)I forget to mention, if you can wait at all, the current Nvidia cards will likely drop significantly in price when the 40nm GPUs come out, which will be soon from what I've heard. It will probably be common to see 260s for $150 or less and 280s for $350 or less.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the GX2, unless it's a more perfected future model. They've had performance issues with those. Generally with any two GPU on one card designs you have more potential for driver/performance problems and in the case of Nvidia's dual GPU card, you only effectively get half the VRAM too.

The way Nvidia SLI is getting you'll be able to pick a good MB (like the X58) and stick with it for years, upgrading the CPU and adding a GPU for SLI. The only problem is even the second to top of the line GPUs are now double slot, yet the new MBs support tri SLI/Crossfire. It's almost getting to the point where the ATX form factor is too small for the current enthusiast level gaming gear.

Even with dual SLI/Crossfire you wind up with only one PCI slot, and tri SLI/Crossfire makes it hard to even fit a sound card in at all, let alone anything else.

I just upgraded my 8800 GTX to the MSI 260 GTX OC. Was $200, found a 25 promo code, and it had a 20 rebate. I then sold my 8800 GTX for $110 instantly on another forum. So my upgrade ended up costing me $55. I couldn't pass that up lol.

The $25 promo code is over, but I think there is a $15 one now.

There are also 216 Core 260's, which will give you another few fps but will cost ya another $50-75 more. Not worth it to me. I didn't see much of a performance boost vs the 8800 GTX, mainly bc I don't play anything the 8800 didn't cream to begin with. But I did see a significant image quality boost, which was nice.

Since your giving yours away, playing the wait game is not a great option. Sucks that you won't be able to SLI except on the new X58 boards. If you go ATI and get a 4850 or 4870, I highly recommend only considering the 1GB cards. I see to many ppl getting rid of the 512's cheap.

There are also 216 Core 260's, which will give you another few fps but will cost ya another $50-75 more. Not worth it to me. I didn't see much of a performance boost vs the 8800 GTX, mainly bc I don't play anything the 8800 didn't cream to begin with.

It depends what Core 216 you look at and when. Over Thanksgiving weekend Newegg had the XFXGTX 260 Black Edition for $250, which is a Core 216 OCed to 666Mhz. It's about the same performance as a GTX 280 for a lot less. Also, your performance increase over a lesser card goes up dramatically when you increase resolution and settings. That's true of any high end card, you don't see their full potential by dogging them.

Latest about the new dual gpu 260's are rumored to come 9th of January, having 55nm GPU's.
http://en.expreview.com/2008/11/19/nvidia-dual-gpu-gtx260-gx2-shows-up-jan-09.html

There's also some single gpu refreshes of the G200(b) coming. The G300 series with DX11 is rumored to come in summer.

ATI's new cards are rumored to come in late spring with 40nm and DX11. There is also rumors that they are working on a "dual core" version of their X2 cards where 2 GPU's are on top of each other.

/rumor

Current fastest card is the 4870x2.
Current "best bang for buck" in high end segment is the 4850x2:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/sapphire_radeon_4850_x2_review/default.asp
The 260/216 card has been proven to be a good card and a much better buy then the 280 in most cases (kinda like 8800GTX vs. 8800Ultra). Its the best bang for buck among Nvidia offernings in highend segment.
The 4870 and 4850 performs well for most and they also have the largest selection of non-reference coolers for less noise. Also, the easyness of making a profile for fan (check fanfix sticky here) gives you a powerful tool to reduce noise further. Choose lower mem and GPU clocks for 2d and you can turn the fan down.

As for DX10.1, there are only a few games with support for them currently. Their support is also limited to only AA in most cases. Assassins creed without patch, Stalker clear sky and FarCry 2. Blizzard, Sega, EA and more developers have signed up for using DX10.1 in their newer games, so more will come. They will still have a DX10 path as well, so I don't think you will be incapable of playing them without DX10.1. DX11 will be available through software on DX10 and DX10.1 games and will be able to access the hardware features the cards have and use software for the rest.

It depends what Core 216 you look at and when. Over Thanksgiving weekend Newegg had the XFXGTX 260 Black Edition for $250, which is a Core 216 OCed to 666Mhz. It's about the same performance as a GTX 280 for a lot less. Also, your performance increase over a lesser card goes up dramatically when you increase resolution and settings. That's true of any high end card, you don't see their full potential by dogging them.

All the 260's OC, most will hit 700+ core and 2200-2400 memory. The MSI has a decent enough OC to start with also, but theres no doubt that Black Edition is better. More shaders and faster default clock. But whats that going to equate to, 5fps maybe?

Check the numbers:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3408&p=4

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/xfx_geforce_gtx_260_black_review/page5.asp

At the same speeds, a 216 core is 2-3 fps faster maybe. The Black edition over a stock normal 260 is maybe 5-6 fps faster. Once you OC a normal 260 up a little it cuts that down to being a very small gap again. I'm all for getting the coolest toy on the block also, but at almost a $100 difference between what I paid and the cheapest I could find a 216 core Black Edition or Superclocked Edition those 3 fps just didn't seem worth it.

I'm all for getting the coolest toy on the block also, but at almost a $100 difference between what I paid and the cheapest I could find a 216 core Black Edition or Superclocked Edition those 3 fps just didn't seem worth it.

I noticed you didn't mention the price you paid. Right now the cheapest I can find a standard GTX 260 for on Newegg that is currently in stock is $220, and that's a sale price. Even the MSI that's out of stock is $200, only $50 cheaper. Neither are anywhere near $100 cheaper than the $250 price I mentioned on the XFX Black Edition.

It also depends on what reviews you read. AnandTech seems to have a knack for not being the best example of what Nvidias can do lately. For instance they'll put a GTX 280 up against a 4870 X2 and only show results at 2560x1600 res, which is ridiculous.

The review above shows only 2560x1600 too, what is their problem with showing main stream resolution results anymore?:roll: The GTX 280 fares much better against a card that high end at 1920x1200, which is far more used than 2560x1600 by most gamers anyway.

I stand by what I said, the XFX Black Edition at $250 has been one of the best deals I've seen, and the price will no doubt drop again when the 55nm GPUs come out, which unless priced low too, likely won't offer much anything better at only 10nm smaller.

Geez Frag let it go lol. I don't know what exactly you are arguing. My last card as an 8800 GTX and I just upgraded to a 260 GTX. That doesn't exactly make me AMD/ATI's choir boy. I only posted what I did bc the OP is in the same spot I was, with the same card and looking at the same choices.

I did indeed post what I paid if you read the first lines of my post. I said it was $200 for the MSI OC 260 GTX, there was a $25 promo code at the time and there is a $20 rebate on that card. By my calculations that comes out to $155. I posted exactly what model I bought and what a shocker, its out of stock? Maybe bc it was a REALLY good deal ya think?

And I could care less if you have problems with AT. Hey look, theres a 2nd link right under them to Firing Squad, it reviews the Black Edition SPECIFICALLY, and guess what, at 1600x1200 and 1920x1200 against a wide range of cards including a 216 core and a standard 260. I guess they are on the take too like all hardware sites and AMD is trying to make it seem like the original 260's are almost as good as the new 260s! What a ingenious plan on their part! Huh?

ATI 4870X2