Widescreen Gaming Forum

I'm looking for a 22" (or 24") widescreen monitor that has built-in functions for pillarboxing (aspect scaling). Pixel mapping (1:1 scaling) is also preferred.

The reason for this is that sometimes I like to play older games that have no widescreen support without them stretching on my monitor and Nvidia never seems to fix the scaling problems in the 8800 series drivers for Windows XP.

My current setup is XFX GeForce 8800GTS to Samsung SyncMaster 225BW via DVI cable.

I've been bugging the local and not-so-local computer stores with my search for monitor and they either don't know what I'm talking about, can't be arsed to test their selection of monitors or refuse to let me test lots of different monitors in the store. So far I've found only one, Nec 2470WNX, but it's 24" (I'd prefer 22") and it costs almost 800 euros, which is a little bit more than I had in mind to spend on a new monitor.

Oh, I live in Finland so the monitor has to be available in Europe.

So if you know a monitor with these features, please reply. Hugs, praise and cookies shall be awaiting you.

:welcome

If you don't need 1:1 (though you call it preferred), this screen is 22" with full screen and scale to aspect. Its a newer model from Samsung and looks interesting:

http://www.tietoasema.fi/eshop/?sid=1&cid=4&gid=141&sgid=14103&vid=&pcode=LS22TWHSUV%2FEN&whid=

You should write about your budget and perhaps more of your preferences and uses. This will help others more to find a screen fitted to your needs. :)

Thanks for welcoming me.

That Samsung doesn't really appeal to me. I think it is the design that throws me off. And the store shows it's 22" but on Samsung's site they say it's 24".

The reason I'd prefer the monitor to have 1:1 is that some older games look quite horrible when scaled up.

My planned budget for the monitor is 300-500 euros. But if there is a superior monitor above that price range, I'm willing to wait untill I get my scholarship (I'm about 90% certain that I'll get it) and spend a part of that on the monitor.

The main usage of the monitor is going to be gaming and video. I don't have a TV, so I watch all my movies on my computer. I also spend countless hours staring at my screen while browsing various websites and reading ebooks. Sometimes I get my toes wet in little graphics design or photo editing. Low latency for gaming and good colour depth are what I'm looking for in a monitor.

One thing that would make me do the hop to 24" is that my musical hobbies have me do some audio editing and a bigger screen would let me see more of the waveform at a time. An increased workspace would also benefit my schoolwork that involves using CAD or circuit design programs. So 24" is fine but anything larger is definately too big for me.

One extra thing I'd like the monitor to have is a good stand. One little annoyance with my current display is that it doesn't go as low as I'd like to set it. A really good stand is one of the reasons I might be willing to go over my current budget.

There you go. The community here seems nice, I hope I can finish my quest for a monitor with the help of you guys.

Samsung has a 24" varient of this also, but this is a 22", hence the name T220. :)

Your uses makes it a bit hard and also the preferences. Best color depth you get with true 8-bit and above (10-bits 24" are on their way into the marked). The TN's like the Samsung you have and the one linked here are 6-bit with dithering up to 8-bit.

For color work, you need IPS. Though you can calibrate other panels with descent DeltaE 2mm from the panel, it won't stay that way when you move further away from the panel. Only IPS have a stable image consistency.

For gaming, TN's are fast, cheap and have little to no input lag.

You either need to go a bit higher up in price or make some compromises. :)

Like this one:
http://www.tietoasema.fi/eshop/?sid=1&cid=4&gid=141&sgid=14103&vid=&pcode=KD911AT%23ABB&whid=

Looks promising, but I've read little about it. It has 1:1, full screen and scale to aspect though. Its S-IPS , which means there image is good on all sides, but I don't know if it has the polarizer used in the H-IPS panels which gives great black at angle.

Thanks for the in-depth reply, Tamlin.

I guess my uses are so various that finding the perfect monitor to do all the stuff is hard. One display to rule them all... :)

You seem to be quite the expert on the matter, how would you rate the Nec 2470WNX for the usage I have in mind? I also did some more browsing and I've grown quite fond of the EzUp stand found on some Eizo monitors. It would allow me to position the display just the way I want it. Are there any monitors from Eizo that you could recommend for me?

I've given things a little thought and it's an awful truth that I spend time in front of my computer (and thus staring at my monitor) a lot. So I could go a bit higher up in price, perhaps even as high as to afford the Nec and other displays around its price. The monitor will be used to its money's worth, I'm quite sure of that. :wink:

I rarely directly recommend screens, since people are so different. As you say, "one display to rule them all" is hard to find. There are no perfect displays no matter how much money you spend. One person can find a minus about a screen to be minor and uninportant, while for another person its a dealbreaker.

There are two things you should especially look at before purchasing an Eizo or NEC of their PVA based models:

1. Are you sensitive to input lag? Even Eizo's advertised "lag free" screen, the HD2441 has 40ms of input lag. The NEC 2470WNX I believe have 33ms, which is average for non-TN 24" screens. I have 33ms on my 2690WUXi, but I'm not sensitive and don't feel it has had any negative effects on my ET: Quake wars gaming. For others, this might be a dealbreaker, so you need to see how its like for yourself.

2. PVA have some problems with viewing angles. This is also dependent on the user how intrusive it feels. Let me give you some links to see. Just remember that camera's pick up the changes faster then eye's usually, so its not that extreme for most people.

Black crush at center due to viewing angles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZnaMex2FUo&NR=1

Look at color shifts in face and the apperance and disapperance of the headrest behind the boy here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC7EozTCGSQ

You can calibrate the center to get pretty good on the newer Eizo's, but there will still be a shift even at center view vs. sides.

Here's a high-end Eizo:
http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eizocg241wcolorshifthq1.jpg

For most people, this is minor and not so important, but you should check how it is for you. :) From Eizo, I would still advice the HD2441, provided that you are not sensitive to image shifts and input lag. :)

The NEC 2470WNX got a favorable user review from a person here at WSGF:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10084

Alright, it looks like I'll be pitting the following monitors against each other:
NEC LCD2470WNX-BK
HP LP2475w
Eizo HD2441

At the moment I don't feel the hots for the Eizo, since it doesn't have the stand which got me interested in their monitors in the first place. But in all fairness I'm giving it a chance.

Any other displays that I should consider throwing into the fray? The gaming and video outweight the other stuff I do on my computer by far, so I'd like to include at least one gaming-orientated contender.

I think I also take a glance at NEC 2690WUXi to determine if 26" is too big or not. I read your review and it got me interested. Too bad the 24" version (2490WUXi) doesn't seem to be available in Europe. :(

I also have a 15" MacBook Pro (Gen. 4). Do you know what kind of display it has? My guess would be TN but I remember hearing that the 4th generation might have IPS. In case I have to plan some compromises, can I rely on my Mac for more colour sensitive work?

I just have to say I really admire your knowledge and enthusiasm on the subject. You've earned at least a couple cookies already. Thanks to you I can get right into the business next time I go to a computer store instead of having to frustatingly explain what I am looking for.
:bowdown

Keep in mind the 26" S-IPS LG Philips panels that NEC, Planar and Doublesight use are actually 25.5", not a full 26". Of them the Doublesight is definitely the best bang for the buck and offers the same input lag as the Planar (less than 1 frame) which is less then the NEC, but you may be underwhelmed by it's stand.

Here's the irony concerning stands though. Many want a height adjustable stand, but if they aren't sturdy enough you get lots of wobble at the higher positions, which some of the newer Samsung stands have received complaints about. With a lower height non adjustable stand, you may have to set it on something to get your desired height, but it may also be more stable. LCDs don't take vibration well, so it's something to consider.

Thanks for your reply, Frag Maniac.

Unfortunately from the three manufacturers you listed only NEC seems to be available in Finland (or in Europe for that matter). I'll keep the thing about the size in mind though, the 2690WUXi might turn out to be a worthy contender once I see it live.

The thing that made me like the EzUp stand from Eizo was that it would have allowed me to set the display really low, only an inch or so away from the tabletop. My Samsung 225BW sits on the lowest position on its stand and I'd still like it to be lower.

You may also want to look into Hazro in the UK if you can have one shipped at an acceptable price, whom make both 24" and 26" S-IPS monitors. They also have aluminum bezels and offer them in black and silver.

I think when it comes to the large displays many don't realize they don't necessarily need to raise them up. In the pictures they look like they sit fairly low, but when you factor in the size of the display it's actually not as low as it looks.

My only ciriteria for height on the display I will next choose will be that the screen clears my center channel speaker, which I place in front of my monitor. Other than that I can simply height adjust my task chair to fine tune.

Welcome, chilibaka.

You've already received excellent advice on screens from guys with more knowledge than me, but I thought I would mention an idea.

Have you considered running older games in windowed mode? This would allow you to play them non-stretched, and it could open up a number of other buying choices since the pixel-mapping wouldn't be so important. I have the same scaling problem (8800GTS on XP) and use this method for the games that need it.

It all comes down to your own priorities and feature wish list, but if other uses for your monitor take precedence over non-stretched older games, it may be worth considering.

The vast majority of games support windowed mode, fyi.

I'll go ahead and offer the NEC 20WMGX2. I've seen them for pretty cheap now. its an IS-IPS screen, amazing color, tons of inputs and 1:1 scaling built in!

Its a 20" but I think it looks nicer since its the same resolution as the 22's

I'm not sure I'm getting this right but my Gateway HD2201s can have scaling so does my XHD3000 with can display 4:3 right in the screen just has the black borders and it works the same way with the 22" and 24" gateway monitors.

Does it automatically if Scaling is off.

Bah, visited the local computer store today. The clerk told me that the monitors I was interested in seeing/testing are all considered special order items and they cannot get one to the store to put on a shelf. He kindly offered to contact the distributors and ask if there are any demo units of the displays available for me to view. Now I just have to wait for his email to see how it turned out.

In the highly likely situation that they cannot get a demo unit, he suggested that I order a monitor through their website and use COD as a payment method. The trick with the COD payment is that after getting it from the post office, I have 14 days to return the monitor if I am not satisfied with it. I'm well aware that there are other computer stores in Finland but I like to buy my displays from this particular store because of their pixel guarantee: if you buy a monitor from them and it has even one dead pixel, you can exchange it for a new one.

Too bad I'm not rich enough to order all the monitors, try them out, pick one and return others. So I have to order just one and hope I'll get lucky. I'm leaning toward ordering NEC 2690WUXi, the three reviews I read on this forum were all positive. And I stared at a 24" monitor in the store and to be honest I really couldn't feel the difference between it and my 22".

Can someone make a comparison between 2690WUXi and a gaming-orientated TN? How noticiable is the difference in input lag? In the colour department the NEC should be a clear winner over any TN and the 33ms of lag it has should have a minimal effect on movies, right?

Better news, received the email from the store. They can get an unopened 2690WUXi demo unit from the distributor for me to stare at. And the fact that it is unopened means that if I end up buying it, I can take that one with me. :D

The 2690WUXi finally arrived from the distributor to the store.

Went there to check it out. It was the factory settings right out from the box, but the colours looked sooo nice. I did some testing with the help of few websites and some test videos the store offered and the display didn't seem radically slower than my current one. To be honest, I really couldn't find much of a difference in the input lag based on the short time I played with the monitor. The scaling worked perfectly, even my friend who I took with me was amazed of that feature. Now he thinks I'm nuts, though, because I'm planning to spend 1200 euros on a computer monitor.

Cheers to everyone for your posts. Now I'm finally finding the path of widescreen enlightenment, thanks to you guys and this forum. You've earned your hugs and cookies. :wink:

Congrats. When it's up and running post some pics so we can be jealous. :wink: :mrgreen:

I'm not the best photographer, but I'll try to provide some pictures for the curious eyes. My desktop (no, not the one in Windows) is rather horrible, though.

Questions to the colour experts: should I bother with picking up Spyder2express? I'm able to get one from another computer store for just under 100 euros. Is it a worthwhile investment?

Congrats! :D

I haven't been able to write much due to high workload again, or I would answer this post earlier.

Its a high prized screen, but I love it myself. It has the best scaling I've seen so far (there are only a few with custom scaling option and the NEC being one of them).

If you would have gotten the older revision, then I would say that you should get the spyder2express. With the older revision, you can LUT calibrate the screen by downloading a free test version of the EU Spectraview profiler (and change a setting in the hidden menu). The only problem is that you have to compensate for white point, since any calibrators that doesn't support wide gamut will get it wrong. It works well with the sRGB preset though and doesn't need compensating there.

Spyder2express software isn't adjustable enough to get a result that would warrant the purchase. Spyder3elite is better in that regard and also is one of the few that supports wide gamut. (I have both).

For now, I would wait, since you don't do any color critical work. Instead, I would do as following:

Buy a light bulb of the type "daylight". In Norway, I couldn't find it in photo stores, so I had to go to a store which has a lot of lightbulb selections. This is one of the things that gives anyone who has an LCD most joy out of their screen. Its more important then what most are aware of. If you find one thats called D65, it would be the best, but any daylight bulbs will improve much. They are usually blueish in color and gives out a very white light. Direct it so that light doesn't go directly into your eyes.

Use the color profile that comes on the CD. Enter the advanced menu (turn off screen, then power it on while holding the input button in).

Turn down brightness to comfortable level. Don't mind how it looks, it will take time for the advanced brightness and color stabilization feature to adjust. Select gamma 2.2 (it activates 12-bit gamma correction with the standard value of 2.2). Select color preset 5 and make it color temp 6507K (closest to D65).

As for color comp, make a full white screen. If it looks a bit "dirty", then you can adjust this with color comp.

Use overdrive on/off as you please.

Under screen saver, you can use something called gamma on on. This will prevent and even cure any uniformity issues you can get by minor and major image percistance. I called for a return of my screen once earlier, due to EXTREME clouding (backlight bleed that looks like clouds on screen). I turn this feature on and after 30 minutes tops, the screen was totally uniform again. I was amazed and tried to call off the support, but they've already sent me a new screen. :P Great support though.

There are lots more, but this is a good starting point. :)