Displayport-compatible screens needed for Eyefinity?

MustangSVT · Post by **MustangSVT** » 15 Oct 2009, 15:53

Is it just me that thinks Sunsp*t is trying to get credit for "inventing" something that´s already been around for years? A lot of us here have been using multi monitor configurations for a very long time, surround gaming included. Honestly, what´s so new and inventive about Eyefinity?

Better performance, sure. But if that´s the only real news with this I think you could go work for Lamborghini and "invent" the back seat too...

This is my feeling on this too. I'm not referring to Sunsp*t directly, rather I'm referring as to how ATI presented the whole EyeFinity thing at their launch. It seems to me that they're pretending that they're the first ones to offer multi-monitor support. Matrox came out with the Parhelia back in like 2002 or 2003, so this is definetely not new technology.

thatdude90210 · Post by **thatdude90210** » 15 Oct 2009, 17:38

Aren't they the first to show it being done on 6 monitors or 24, at least first at the consumer level.

whismerhill · Post by **whismerhill** » 15 Oct 2009, 17:54

[quote]Is it just me that thinks Sunsp*t is trying to get credit for "inventing" something that´s already been around for years? A lot of us here have been using multi monitor configurations for a very long time, surround gaming included. Honestly, what´s so new and inventive about Eyefinity?

Better performance, sure. But if that´s the only real news with this I think you could go work for Lamborghini and "invent" the back seat too...

This is my feeling on this too. I'm not referring to Sunsp*t directly, rather I'm referring as to how ATI presented the whole EyeFinity thing at their launch. It seems to me that they're pretending that they're the first ones to offer multi-monitor support. Matrox came out with the Parhelia back in like 2002 or 2003, so this is definetely not new technology.
they are the first to offer it, working right out of the box
without any need for tweaking (softTH) or expensive hardware (TH2GO)
so I don't find this any wrong

in any case, everyone knows how marketing is done ...

I would say EyeFinity is definitely a big step... now it just needs a bit more maturation to sort out a few bugs and add features and for the 5870Six to get out !

About Sunsp*t in particular, well I think EF is "his baby", he probably worked hard on it (he was not alone of course...)so I think everyone can understand...

rbjorn · Post by **rbjorn** » 15 Oct 2009, 20:13

Yeah I guess for people who hasn´t been around long enough and only know about GeForce and Radeon cards think that this is something new, when in fact Matrox had it working "out of the box" a long time ago just like Mustang said...

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 15 Oct 2009, 20:30

I'll agree - the idea of multiple screens is not new.

However, it cannot be said that the Parhelia was a good card for gaming with... particularly when you wanted it to drive three monitors. ;)

Post by **Tamlin** » 15 Oct 2009, 21:40

Yeah I guess for people who hasn´t been around long enough and only know about GeForce and Radeon cards think that this is something new, when in fact Matrox had it working "out of the box" a long time ago just like Mustang said...

Its not new, but its a great addition and it does bring new features and choices. :)

The only downside I can see with Eyefinity is the price of the adapter to use it. Otherwise its TH capabilities for consumers and not only enthusiasts.

Even kids can have their friends over, bringing their own screens and they can play games in TH. One don't have to invest in 2 extra screens to enjoy it, specialized hardware additions or be an enthusiast custom building with 2 cards and a softTH setup. All people need is friends and if they don't have any, Eyefinity might be a good reason to get some... :P

A larger userbase for triplehead is great for everyone, regardless if they use TH2GO, softTH or Eyefinity. Better support usually comes with larger userbases and perhaps we'll even see better FOV adjustment capabilities in future games.

:triplewide FTW!

whismerhill · Post by **whismerhill** » 15 Oct 2009, 21:56

I'll agree - the idea of multiple screens is not new.

However, it cannot be said that the Parhelia was a good card for gaming with... particularly when you wanted it to drive three monitors. ;)

LOL you mean, all the fuss was about the parhelia ?
that thing which had so much promises yet failed to deliver ?

ho yeah you know guys I invented a piece of paper which allows you to walk on the sun... what ? my piece of paper doesn't work ? ho I know, but at least I had the idea before everyone :lol: :lol: :lol:

parhelia was a failure, let's face it the drivers never delivered (a friend owned one...)
and from launch day its performance was crap

"FAA16x" (not FSAA) quality failed and wasn't even widely compatible

rbjorn · Post by **rbjorn** » 15 Oct 2009, 22:25

We´re just saying they shouldn´t tout their own horn too much about "inventing" this stuff, not trying to take away from it being a great product... I agree about the biggest downside at the moment is the lack of available adapters. I´m in Sweden and currently there is nowhere to purchase these from other than the out of stock Dutch site.

Dave Baumann · Post by **Dave Baumann** » 15 Oct 2009, 23:21

We´re just saying they shouldn´t tout their own horn too much about "inventing" this stuff, not trying to take away from it being a great product... I agree about the biggest downside at the moment is the lack of available adapters. I´m in Sweden and currently there is nowhere to purchase these from other than the out of stock Dutch site.

Well, I do have to say that nobody has offered the capability of doing up to 6 simultaneous displays from a single GPU yet - technically neither have we yet, but Sunspot is a planner is is looking at things in a more global sense and the only reason we haven't yet is that it is more important to map the initial products to be qualified to the majority use case at the moment and the physical footprint of the back plate limits us to certain configurations.

Additional to that, this is the first time that it is offered in a cost effective manner that can scale to products from $129 updwards without incuring prohibitive costs - we talk about "innovation" and, sure, 3 panel gaming has been done before, but the innovation comes from having a solution that is scalable to offer solutions at no extra cost, have all the capabilities that other 2 panel solutions can (high resolutions, 10-bit display pipes, etc., etc.) and is scalable in the number of panels that can be supported.

01Boxer · Post by **01Boxer** » 16 Oct 2009, 00:59

Apple didn't invent the mp3 player either but they perfected it to a point where they dominate the market and everybody knows what an ipod is.

KryptoNyte · Post by **KryptoNyte** » 16 Oct 2009, 02:40

... without incuring prohibitive costs ...

What, like an adapter that costs 38% of the 5850 video card? :roll:

Parhelia was terrible, no doubt, but it's been *7_years* for heaven's sake. That's like two lifetimes for AMD, (you know, the time it takes their stock to shoot for the stars, and then plummet back to the ground).

It's fantastic to (hopefully) have some options here, but let's be honest about the "achievement," too. What market exactly are you targeting for a 24 display system?

Dave Baumann · Post by **Dave Baumann** » 16 Oct 2009, 02:56

What, like an adapter that costs 38% of the 5850 video card? :roll:

Or by using an input that comes for free on a number of high quality panels already and will become more prevelent as we go on.

It's fantastic to (hopefully) have some options here, but let's be honest about the "achievement," too. What market exactly are you targeting for a 24 display system?

Professional actually. While that makes an interesting demo, that particular configuration will be aimed in for the professional markets for video walls and the like.

whismerhill · Post by **whismerhill** » 16 Oct 2009, 03:24

[quote]What, like an adapter that costs 38% of the 5850 video card? :roll:

Or by using an input that comes for free on a number of high quality panels already and will become more prevelent as we go on.

It's fantastic to (hopefully) have some options here, but let's be honest about the "achievement," too. What market exactly are you targeting for a 24 display system?

Professional actually. While that makes an interesting demo, that particular configuration will be aimed in for the professional markets for video walls and the like.

I actually have a question Dave
As I understand it, it seems legacy (VGA,DVI,HDMI) connection requires some additional hardware(clock generators) on the ASIC for getting clock sources, whereas DP can use a shared clock source right ?

Wouldn't this means that in the far far future when no more backward compatibility is needed one could expect removing these clock sources and so save on space & build cost ? (whether for pure savings or reusing them for anything else)

I realize this is a completely theoric scenario which will probably be invalidated by "Display Port Version 4.0" if you see what I mean
but I think you got the idea ... ????

Dave Baumann · Post by **Dave Baumann** » 16 Oct 2009, 03:28

Technically you are completely correct. Realistically, we probably won't go down from the number of display clock generators that we have at the moment due to thefact that some form of legacy display will be required - at the very least, while HDMI is around on CE devices, its probably that will be supported.

Post by **BHawthorne** » 16 Oct 2009, 04:19

Taking away features to shrink the card might be a cost effective strategy, but it's also ignoring the marketplace. Going only DP would not be the best idea right now taking a detatched look at the marketplace. In order for a product to thrive it must accomodate the pre-existing majority in such a manner that it's an upgrade yet function with thier current hardware. This is why I see the DP strategy a bit out of whack. I do understand why they went that route though and it has great implications for the future, but right now it has high early adapter (pun intended) headaches. 5 years down the road most of the stuff sold will probably be HDMI and DP only, but right now it's a bit ahead of it's time. In order for that evolution to occur, there needs to be a push like this from major manufacturers to implement the port. AMD is doing it's part, time will only tell if the display manufacturers will reciprocate. EyeFinity will be much more mature and appealing about 5 years from now. As is, with entheusiasts, it already is appealing on many levels. The trick will be lowering the bar low enough that it appeals to a large cross section than just us.

KryptoNyte · Post by **KryptoNyte** » 16 Oct 2009, 04:42

BH, I'm pretty sure that what we've really got going here is a commercial grade product, and the gaming community is more of a sideshow fringe income to simply help mature the technology into something more commercially attractive, a stepping stone if you will. Once you put it into perspective (where real cash comes from) the DP starts to make more sense for sure.

If ATI started development for this any time in the last 12 months, you can bet there were some heated meetings both before and after engineering launch, pressing the bean counters on how they plan to pay for this in the midst of a shaken World economy.

Looks like we'll all eventually be speaking Chinese anyways, and to ATI's benefit, they can't make bootleg copies of video cards (to my knowledge).

trueman832 · Post by **trueman832** » 16 Oct 2009, 04:52

Hi Dave and Sunsp*t,

Sorry about all the flak you are taking off some of the yahoos on this forum, going Displayport was a bold move and didn't take away from existing capabilities. If you can afford 3 monitors, you can afford the DPtoDVI adapter. Those kids don't know how the market works.

I went from a GTX295 with a TripleHead2Go digital to a XFX 5870 with a Bizlink adapter and made $150CAD off the deal (that's a lot of lap dances over by the airport). It works FREAKING GREAT with FSX and KA-50 at 5040x1050, something the TH2G could never get right. The GTX295 is great for shooters, but those sims don't use both cores so the 5870 is a lot faster. :twisted:

I am having one problem and I wanted your input. My centre monitor is on the Bizlink adapter, and from time to time it starts blinking on and off, like it's switching modes every few seconds, for about 10 minutes, then goes back to normal for up to an hour. The blinking is interspersed with artifacts, patterns, and a lot of other loss of signal stuff.

My question to you, engineer to engineer, could this be a bad displayport? I realize it could just be a bad adapter, but Dell, where I got the Bizlink adapter, is horrible to deal with. You're "working the ecosystem" for active adapters, do you know anything that could be helpful?

Thanks,
trueman832, Toronto

KryptoNyte · Post by **KryptoNyte** » 16 Oct 2009, 04:53

I'm afraid my posts here are coming off markedly negative, and although I'm reasonably miffed at the decision making procedures and their consideration for backward compatibility in 3+ display environments, a company that's willing to plan that far ahead has some balls. In technology markets these days, it can't be easy to convince folks to think 3 to 5 years down the road.

In addition, Trueman, I don't appreciate being referred to as a child if that's where you're going with that, and please don't assume that there is no principle in the hardware purchasing decisions of rational adults. We have plenty of cash, but we didn't get here (and we didn't bring our corporations with us) by making frivolous decisions.

whismerhill · Post by **whismerhill** » 16 Oct 2009, 05:09

Technically you are completely correct. Realistically, we probably won't go down from the number of display clock generators that we have at the moment due to thefact that some form of legacy display will be required - at the very least, while HDMI is around on CE devices, its probably that will be supported.

that's exactly what I expected in fact, thanks for answering

don't be mistaken BHawthorne
I was just verifying that I understood all that info correctly, as said by Dave, legacy will sit around for a while longer (hey you still get motherboards equipped with the legacy parallel LPT1 port still nowadays, although on the majority the port is now optional)

on a sidenote I wonder if an ATI partner might do a redesign of the 5870 month later with 3x "working" DVI outputs, depends if they expect a market for it I guess ...

Post by **BHawthorne** » 16 Oct 2009, 05:31

on a sidenote I wonder if an ATI partner might do a redesign of the 5870 month later with 3x "working" DVI outputs, depends if they expect a market for it I guess ...

I don't thnk there is a large enough market for them to do that, or it would have been done in the first place. I think EyeFinity occured because they were looking at new ways to use that third active port DP allowed, not to accomodate people who already had 3 DVI displays. It came about with different reasoning than how most of us arrived at triple-head. This is also why there is a bit of friction here, because both this community and EyeFinity do triple-head, but came about in different ways. For 99% of the population, our concerns are largely irrelevant to the 5000-series line. We do bring some new perspective to the table that AMD is listening though with at least 2 people here. Many things we are seasoned veterans at AMD is only now just having to troubleshoot. That is why I'm glad they are here listening. I would hope our perspective is useful in prioritizing EyeFinity feature implementation.

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