Bioshock: artistic vision - or not as the case may be

Post by **Ryom** » 26 Aug 2007, 06:58

My last effort to explain why we do what we do: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=153535&postcount=550 previous post mentioned in that post is http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=146886&postcount=470

Osuperman · Post by **Osuperman** » 26 Aug 2007, 11:36

My last effort to explain why we do what we do: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=153535&postcount=550 previous post mentioned in that post is http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=146886&postcount=470

Good on you, I honestly think we're all getting better and better at explaining the problem as the days go by! However it only falls on deaf ears. The 4:3 users are going to stick to the excuse given by the developers that it was "made that way" ugh, lets hope they never get into film making...

Like I said before, when widescreen becomes truly standard in a few years, perhaps then they will understand, until then it seems, it's us against them sadly. But hey, we've done our job and think we should all feel suitable happy with the result :)

Googlestater · Post by **Googlestater** » 26 Aug 2007, 12:41

[quote]what FOV values are you guys using? I have a 37" monitor

I saw another message back in the early-mid twenties that said the correct ratios are 0.84 for both width and height...anyone else care to comment?
Yeah, it doesn't matter the size, what matters is the AR. So see if you have a 16:10, 16:9, 4:3, etc and then check the numbers you'd like to use.

Long and brain death inducing details:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/node/8018#comment-158989
Skip to the tables if you don't like excruciating detail.

Post by **Paddy the Wak** » 26 Aug 2007, 18:11

Proof that Bioshock's FOV was no ... artistic decision ...

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=110175#110175

darklight_tr · Post by **darklight_tr** » 26 Aug 2007, 22:39

Racer_S and Paddy...THANK YOU! :D

I finally can play BioShock in full widescreen glory using DirectX 10.

THANK YOU! You guys rock.

Post by **Paddy the Wak** » 26 Aug 2007, 22:46

Glad you are enjoying it darklight_tr ... 8)

Tolyngee · Post by **Tolyngee** » 26 Aug 2007, 22:48

[quote]update!

- Whats new in v1.2 on 8/25/07?
*added support for directx 10 mode

http://dl.tocaedit.com/bioshockdFOV.zip

only paddy tested it, so let me know if it works for you

Confirmed working in Vista 32-bit and DX10.

You are my hero.

Someone remind me why we need an official patch.

Is Racer_S also working on an Xbox360 patch?

Post by **Paddy the Wak** » 26 Aug 2007, 22:54

... no

Tolyngee · Post by **Tolyngee** » 26 Aug 2007, 22:56

... no

I'd bet Xbox360 users would enjoy an official patch then, no?

YouTube · Post by **ViciousXUSMC** » 26 Aug 2007, 23:03

Now that I see there is a fix for the FOV I may want to get this game. Do you guys recommend retail or the steam version?

Also whats the respective cost of each? (I think I heard the steam version is more expensive???)

Post by **Paddy the Wak** » 26 Aug 2007, 23:04

@ Tolyngee
2K say there is an official patch on the way ... 8)

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 26 Aug 2007, 23:07

[quote][quote]update!

- Whats new in v1.2 on 8/25/07?
*added support for directx 10 mode

http://dl.tocaedit.com/bioshockdFOV.zip

only paddy tested it, so let me know if it works for you

Confirmed working in Vista 32-bit and DX10.

You are my hero.

Someone remind me why we need an official patch.

Is Racer_S also working on an Xbox360 patch?

Its not possible.

YouTube · Post by **ViciousXUSMC** » 26 Aug 2007, 23:07

yay +1 for pc for once.

Tolyngee · Post by **Tolyngee** » 26 Aug 2007, 23:23

@ Tolyngee
2K say there is an official patch on the way ... 8)

I know, but they've said A LOT of things, no?

Between the activation issues, SecuROM, tallscreen support, and a walk/run key...

Do you trust them to not just sit on their moronic butts and just say "Racer_S made a hack, just like we planned all along"

"It is our development approach to let all of our artistic designs stand, and to just allow the community to 'mod' the game to their liking..."

And not bother with a patch, and forget it affects Xbox360 as well?

Reading these forums isn't even comical to me anymore...

The hype machine was way into overdrive for this one, and after playing the demo twice (second time with the FOV hack...), I don't see why...

Considering the people behind developing/supporting the game in every area you can even begin to imagine all appear to be morons, I'm steering clear of this one...

Too many gameplay issues that should have been caught in QA...

PADDYWAK EDIT ... last sentence deleted as it was a possible spoiler ...
I for one am not happy I know the information you mentioned here ... however cryptic !

Post by **Paddy the Wak** » 26 Aug 2007, 23:31

Right ... but ... but ... I was only answering your question as best I could ...

I'd bet Xbox360 users would enjoy an official patch then, no?

Tolyngee · Post by **Tolyngee** » 26 Aug 2007, 23:32

yay +1 for pc for once.

Then it should be the "PCWSGF"...

"WSGF" implies to me a care for ALL WSGs...

Someone here already mentioned "why do we need an official patch?" (in jest, but I don't trust the devs to see the difference...)

I sure as hell don't want the devs for ever a second to think the same...

Post by **Paddy the Wak** » 26 Aug 2007, 23:39

[quote]yay +1 for pc for once.

Then it should be the "PCWSGF"...

"WSGF" implies to me a care for ALL WSGs...

Someone here already mentioned "why do we need an official patch?" (in jest, but I don't trust the devs to see the difference...)

I sure as hell don't want the devs for ever a second to think the same...The forum is for both ... PC and console users.
Just because we can't fix this problem on the 360 you think it should be called "PCWSGF" ... ?

We "the community" which is what the WSGF is ... are just trying to help in whatever way we can with games and widescreen ... and none of us get paid ... we are doing what we are doing for the good of the community for free.

People joke ... the forum can't stop em ... we are not the "serious police" we are the WSGF.

greylantern · Post by **greylantern** » 27 Aug 2007, 07:03

Tolyngee > your anger is misdirected. Try the 2k forum or email their CEO to let them know how you feel.

The guys around here have done nothing but persist in getting an official fix (so that Xbox 360 owners could be catered for also) instead of us just settling for a rather good 'hack' that already has the game working for us.

If it wasn't for Paddy and some other guys (and all the persistent supporters over @ 2k) then there would be no fix.

It's MS and 2k that have dissapointed you, no need to get angry here about it in a private forum that owes nothing not anyone nor answers to anyone.

antivoid · Post by **antivoid** » 27 Aug 2007, 10:35

Legendary dude. A game has never looked so sweet, as sweet as Bioshock looks on my 22" Widescreen.

I am still interested in knowing what addresses you guys wrote to to affect those changes.

I can see the hole at the base of the wrench now!!!!

sojrner · Post by **sojrner** » 27 Aug 2007, 21:21

Thanks, that is honestly the first reasonable argument I've heard on this forum that didn't feel like a case of entitlement to me.

Now, sadly I am not a game designer (as much as I want to be) But I do want to make one last point about whether or not it's "simple" to make the fix. What about game balance? If the game was developed and play tested with the current settings, does a wider fov potentially make the game easier?

It's funny that you mention the idea of no saves, the first time I saw the vita-chamber in the demo I actually thought they had made that decision, to not allow saves, just reset you from the last vita chamber :P.

I think in the end, like you said Art is open to critique. You guys are certainantly allowed to not like the artistic decision and other people are entitled to agree with the artistic decision. I think it's a very interesting thing for future developers to consider, how do we manage to satisfy both 4:3 and 16:9 users when in the end we want them to both have the same experience.

ya, it was one of the better arguments I have heard.

My question about not liking the "artistic" decision is this: Was it even art that drove the decision? Or was it just a "meh, they will never know the difference" decision?

Even worse... was it even a decision at all? did they even think about it, or is it like what was mentioned in another thread that this is just the default Unreal3 implementation and that is what they left in there?

Just some thoughts...

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