Widescreen Gaming Forum

give me an example of something that didn't work with Nvidia cards or the drivers!

Seriously, both Nvidia and ATI drivers have flaws, but much of the time they fix games and program bugs that shouldn't be there to begin with and developers didn't get stable enough before release.

I'll give you some examples, but thats just to avoid a pissing contest between ATI and Nvidia drivers:

New in Version 195.39
* Includes over 200 bug fixes. Refer to the release notes on the documentation tab for information about the key bug fixes in this release.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7_winvista_64bit_195.39_beta.html

Question is, did Nvidia drivers have over 200 bugs that needed to be fixed, or did they fix 200 bugs that game/software developers should have fixed themselves?

Here you can see issues that still is with this driver set:
http://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/195.39/195.39_Win7_WinVista_Desktop_Release_Notes.pdf

Perhaps you want to read about "the driver of death", which might be happening on more then one driver?

Nvidia 191.07 drivers causing outright hardware failure?

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1462586

Could be interesting to read about Nvidia's PhysX poster game "Mirrors Edge"?:
Mirror’s Edge Patch 1.01, PhysX Lockup & Freezing Fix! Finally Get to Flowin!
http://loyalkng.com/2009/02/15/mirrors-edge-patch-101-physx-lockup-freezing-fix-finally-get-to-flowin/

My point is not that ATI have better drivers, but you wanted an example of issues with Nvidia and here you have several.

Nvidia and ATI's driver team do their best to fix problems. If a game is released and it doesn't work, it might be related to GAME BUGS, not driver bugs even though the driver teams manages to fix something that game developers should have done themselves.

Your anger should go against the game developers, who sold you a game they couldn't get to run on major hardware they advertised support for, not the driver teams trying to fix it for you. ;)

I applaud you Tamlin. But even with this great research, Fan Boy will be Fan Boys.

I applaud you Tamlin. But even with this great research, Fan Boy will be Fan Boys.

Thank you. :) But I think much of his anger is fustration and not so much fanboyism. I hope he will take my post as constructive and informative about drivers in general. Drivers are not as black and white/Nvidia vs. ATI as he tries to give impression about. Its better to focus and report the problems, then to vent anger and fustration about them.

Even I have issues with the 5870, but I don't put up a general global announcement of my thread because of this, and I try to keep constructive myself, though I do find my issue pretty annoying.

We all have to be a bit considerate of others in a community and look for solutions to our problems instead of just venting them. :)

[quote]I applaud you Tamlin. But even with this great research, Fan Boy will be Fan Boys.

Thank you. :) But I think much of his anger is fustration and not so much fanboyism. I hope he will take my post as constructive and informative about drivers in general. Drivers are not as black and white/Nvidia vs. ATI as he tries to give impression about. Its better to focus and report the problems, then to vent anger and fustration about them.

Even I have issues with the 5870, but I don't put up a general global announcement of my thread because of this, and I try to keep constructive myself, though I do find my issue pretty annoying.

We all have to be a bit considerate of others in a community and look for solutions to our problems instead of just venting them. :)

You said it better than me, and perhaps I am a little to blame (though I wasn't the tattler here :D ).

[quote] give me an example of something that didn't work with Nvidia cards or the drivers!

Seriously, both Nvidia and ATI drivers have flaws, but much of the time they fix games and program bugs that shouldn't be there to begin with and developers didn't get stable enough before release.

I'll give you some examples, but thats just to avoid a pissing contest between ATI and Nvidia drivers:

New in Version 195.39
* Includes over 200 bug fixes. Refer to the release notes on the documentation tab for information about the key bug fixes in this release.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7_winvista_64bit_195.39_beta.html

Question is, did Nvidia drivers have over 200 bugs that needed to be fixed, or did they fix 200 bugs that game/software developers should have fixed themselves?

Here you can see issues that still is with this driver set:
http://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/195.39/195.39_Win7_WinVista_Desktop_Release_Notes.pdf

Perhaps you want to read about "the driver of death", which might be happening on more then one driver?

Nvidia 191.07 drivers causing outright hardware failure?

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1462586

Could be interesting to read about Nvidia's PhysX poster game "Mirrors Edge"?:
Mirror’s Edge Patch 1.01, PhysX Lockup & Freezing Fix! Finally Get to Flowin!
http://loyalkng.com/2009/02/15/mirrors-edge-patch-101-physx-lockup-freezing-fix-finally-get-to-flowin/

My point is not that ATI have better drivers, but you wanted an example of issues with Nvidia and here you have several.

Nvidia and ATI's driver team do their best to fix problems. If a game is released and it doesn't work, it might be related to GAME BUGS, not driver bugs even though the driver teams manages to fix something that game developers should have done themselves.

Your anger should go against the game developers, who sold you a game they couldn't get to run on major hardware they advertised support for, not the driver teams trying to fix it for you. ;)


HAHAHAHAHA I am talking about Video Card and Video Driver Software options. NOT VIDEO GAMES having bugs. I don't think you understood at what I was talking about.

HAHAHAHAHA I am talking about Video Card and Video Driver Software options. NOT VIDEO GAMES having bugs. I don't think you understood at what I was talking about.

I think you don't get my point and trust me, you should. You are walking a very fine line here between being a fustrated user wanting his issues fixed and being an agressive poster without any constructive value to the community. Already you stepped over and a mod gave you a warning.

You have complained about much more then video card and driver options in this thread and I gave you examples for a big range of issues, from hardware to software (read the .pdf), including video card and video driver software options. I'm not defending ATI, but showing you that things are not as Nvidia vs. ATi as you express.

To show you a bit where we are coming from, here's a thread about Nvidia's broken scaling in different driver sets:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7664

If you search our forum, you'll see that there are not agressive posting against Nvidia for that reason. We have complained about lack of scale to aspect on ATI cards (which was absent before 2008) and when scaling has been broken on Nvidia drivers (still happens now and then).

As a forum, we value more information then just venting agression, so we have informed and complained.

By the standard you have shown, we should have asked Nvidia to stop selling GFX cards until they figure out how to make drivers without breaking the scaling options. Instead, we have recommended Nvidia cards exclusively (before ATI got scale to aspect) in cases where the members screen didn't have scale to aspect and needed scaling for his/her 4:3 games.

I hope I have made my point here and that we will see more constructive posting from you in the future and I promise you will feel more welcome here. If you just want to continue venting agression, I promise you a permanent vacation from WSGF.

bwahahahah yea great drivers ATI I knew I should not have got this damn card. You guys can't ever deliver a decent driver can you. You release a official driver then release a hotfix the same day for that driver WTH. And nothing really got fixed. Come on fermi I am already itching to go back to the green side where things were always smooth. Now just hoping fermi supports some type of triple wide.

I have not actually installed the 9.12 yet doing some bench's with 9.11 but I am just going off of what I am reading on many forums.

Not sure why you think NVIDIA drivers are so much better. The latest release notes for the 195.62 driver have eight pages of Known or Open issues. Also, why don't you talk to TH2Go users who had custom res support broken after 182.50. These were released back in the March '09 timeframe and are the last known good working drivers that consistently supported custom resolutions. That's a long time to live with broken support on a feature that had been working fine for years. You can't even get those from NVIDIA (they aren't in the archives). You have to go some place like Guru3D.

I agree with an earlier poster than this is a pretty bottom of the barrel post. It's about the same quality as saying, "Elvis/Tupac/Biggie are alive. I didn't see them myself, but some people on this forum saw them." Post after doing your own research or hands-on. At the very least link to the forums that you're reading so others can be similarly informed.

[quote]
HAHAHAHAHA I am talking about Video Card and Video Driver Software options. NOT VIDEO GAMES having bugs. I don't think you understood at what I was talking about.

I think you don't get my point and trust me, you should. You are walking a very fine line here between being a fustrated user wanting his issues fixed and being an agressive poster without any constructive value to the community. Already you stepped over and a mod gave you a warning.

You have complained about much more then video card and driver options in this thread and I gave you examples for a big range of issues, from hardware to software (read the .pdf), including video card and video driver software options. I'm not defending ATI, but showing you that things are not as Nvidia vs. ATi as you express.

To show you a bit where we are coming from, here's a thread about Nvidia's broken scaling in different driver sets:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7664

If you search our forum, you'll see that there are not agressive posting against Nvidia for that reason. We have complained about lack of scale to aspect on ATI cards (which was absent before 2008) and when scaling has been broken on Nvidia drivers (still happens now and then).

As a forum, we value more information then just venting agression, so we have informed and complained.

By the standard you have shown, we should have asked Nvidia to stop selling GFX cards until they figure out how to make drivers without breaking the scaling options. Instead, we have recommended Nvidia cards exclusively (before ATI got scale to aspect) in cases where the members screen didn't have scale to aspect and needed scaling for his/her 4:3 games.

I hope I have made my point here and that we will see more constructive posting from you in the future and I promise you will feel more welcome here. If you just want to continue venting agression, I promise you a permanent vacation from WSGF.

REALLY I have no idea why anyone would complain about what you just posted to me. Get a 4:3 monitor if you want to play donkey kong on your widescreen monitor. The problem is people are trying to do something that is not supported by the monitor it isn't a problem with the card itself and why would anyone want to play a game @ 800X600 anyway.

And I guess you are the one that sent me the warning. I have not done anything wrong here so you are abviously just frustrated with my post. They are all problems that I am experiencing so what is the problem with me posting. I did not call anyone a fanboy, I didn't call anyone out, I did not offend anyone, I was not rude to anyone. So how am I in the wrong. What is wrong with me saying hey if Nvidia releases something similiar to eyefinity then I will make the switch because I am sure that Nvidia will make it right and make it work. I am saying this in my own opinion from past exp with Nvidia that does not make me a fanboy. And why are you threatening me. And I also don't get how you say I am being an aggressive poster haha. If anything you have done everything that I have done so I guess that would mean that we should both be banned then. You said above that fanboys will be fanboys which I am clearly not. I am 28 years old and don't care what I am using. If I was an Nvidia fanboy I never would have went with ATI the only reason I did was for Eyefinity. But I am having problems with it like 99% of the people using it are. So yea of course I am irritated.

[quote]bwahahahah yea great drivers ATI I knew I should not have got this damn card. You guys can't ever deliver a decent driver can you. You release a official driver then release a hotfix the same day for that driver WTH. And nothing really got fixed. Come on fermi I am already itching to go back to the green side where things were always smooth. Now just hoping fermi supports some type of triple wide.

I have not actually installed the 9.12 yet doing some bench's with 9.11 but I am just going off of what I am reading on many forums.

Not sure why you think NVIDIA drivers are so much better. The latest release notes for the 195.62 driver have eight pages of Known or Open issues. Also, why don't you talk to TH2Go users who had custom res support broken after 182.50. These were released back in the March '09 timeframe and are the last known good working drivers that consistently supported custom resolutions. That's a long time to live with broken support on a feature that had been working fine for years. You can't even get those from NVIDIA (they aren't in the archives). You have to go some place like Guru3D.

I agree with an earlier poster than this is a pretty bottom of the barrel post. It's about the same quality as saying, "Elvis/Tupac/Biggie are alive. I didn't see them myself, but some people on this forum saw them." Post after doing your own research or hands-on. At the very least link to the forums that you're reading so others can be similarly informed.

I am not saying they are the greatest but I have never had a feature in Nvidia control panel not work. And there are many Nvidia drivers to choose from. They always release beta drivers for people to test out if they choose. I have not seen that with ATI. And my post that you quoted I just found it odd to include a hotfix for a driver a couple hours after it releases why not just include it in the driver haha. And if a driver is broken atleast you can go back to one that did work. Do you know of any drivers that will fix my switching from eyefinity to extended mode because I have not found one yet. Do you know of a driver that will keep my monitor from flashing randomly every once in a while.

Can you post the driver that will fix these problems for me. Or give me a time frame on when this will be fixed. All I have been saying all along is that I don't understand why ATI is having these problems. I know Dave said that the switching profiles will be worked out in a couple months that just seems like a long time to wait for a feature that should already work. Can they just create another hotfix so we don't have to wait for an offical driver?

REALLY I have no idea why anyone would complain about what you just posted to me. Get a 4:3 monitor if you want to play donkey kong on your widescreen monitor. The problem is people are trying to do something that is not supported by the monitor it isn't a problem with the card itself and why would anyone want to play a game @ 800X600 anyway.

There are many good games that are only in 4:3 unfortunately. HOMM 3 for one. The scaling that was broken, was in the card, not the monitor.

And I guess you are the one that sent me the warning. I have not done anything wrong here so you are abviously just frustrated with my post. They are all problems that I am experiencing so what is the problem with me posting. I did not call anyone a fanboy, I didn't call anyone out, I did not offend anyone, I was not rude to anyone. So how am I in the wrong.

No I didn't send you a warning and I actually said you weren't a fanboy if you read up a bit. You called out a lot of people:

All you guys that are sitting hear sticking up for this BS are a bunch of fan boys. You got ati so far up your you know what to realize or admit any problems. You know that when Nvidia does release something like this we will not see as many bugs because they are not going to release something that works half ass like this.

and, you can come back in a week. Hopefully you have then time enough to think about the difference between venting agression and posting constructive. If not, its permanent vacation for you.

I couldn't solve the black and white screen issue no matter what I did. I rolled back to the 9.11 drivers and no issues. Hope this one gets back to the folks at ATI for fixing.

The mods are right on this one. I too have been very frustrated at times and ended up reacting emotionally and posting items of questionable value (and that's being generous). But, the end result is always the same: 2 pages of back-and-forth, none of which advances our mutual goal of getting this stuff working.

As much as I've wanted to, I cannot fault ATI's response thus far. Eyefinity has issues, but we're very early in the process and there are already more games that work incredibly well than I even have time to benchmark - much less play.

Finally, we have true driver-level support at last from a big-name card manufacturer. That's an issue that ended up killing my interest in TH2go. As stated, TH2go simply stopped working with new driver updates after a certain point. Game over.

I've probably done just as much whining and complaining. Just out of pure frustration. but as I have said. at this point I'm sure ATI is now aware of all these Issues and it's just a matter of of them getting it all sorted out. and in the meantime. try to help one another the best we can

As the Owner/Founder, let me step in and say that I have no issues with people venting. I have no issues with people wanting to take someone like ATI or Matrox or Dell or whomever to task for something. I'm working on my full review of the Radeon 5870, and it's not all roses - especially with regards to CCC. And, I certainly have no issues with constructive debate between members.

But, I do require that everyone be civil to our industry guests. If we're rude to them on a consistent basis, then they won't stick around. And, I require that we are civil with each other. The WSGF has a reputation for being a nice place that values everyone's opinion, and is welcoming to all. I will not lose that.

In the end, it's not what you say, but how you say it. And, we are rarely a good judge of whether we are seen as rude or offensive to others, as we do not know how others perceive us.

I've probably done just as much whining and complaining. Just out of pure frustration. but as I have said. at this point I'm sure ATI is now aware of all these Issues and it's just a matter of of them getting it all sorted out. and in the meantime. try to help one another the best we can

We all complain when we have issues and sometimes we are very fustrated about them. Its when the fustration turns into agression lashing out against reps and members we start to react or if a member starts spamming his/her agression. Your posts didn't have that agression. Trying to help one another, as you say, is the best we can do. :cheers

I think Ibrin said it the best with:

In the end, it's not what you say, but how you say it. And, we are rarely a good judge of whether we are seen as rude or offensive to others, as we do not know how others perceive us.

We're a community of people with different opinions and interests. Everyone is welcome with their opinion and interests and all we ask is to be civil to each other.

bowenac, I saw you tried to post with second account. ;) You're welcome back in 7 days and yes, there are no hard feelings. Just try to be a bit more civil about it this time and bygones will be bygones. :)

AND NOW!!!

Back to the topic at hand! :nudgenudge

A question for those running 9.12, what is the major issue right now in the driver update? I haven't got it yet (mainly because I wait and see).

Seems good to me, I have had no problems so far. I figure the weird issue of flickering when changing the card freqs only happens in extended desktop, at a res of 5760x1200 it is fine. So now running (very happily) 850/5000 .. could do more but it is summer and the fan gets noisy on my test bed type case. Looking forward to buying a custom cooler!

It really is all about how you say it. EVERY SINGLE TIME I've been rude - I've ended up regretting it.

AND NOW!!!

Back to the topic at hand! :nudgenudge

A question for those running 9.12, what is the major issue right now in the driver update? I haven't got it yet (mainly because I wait and see).

Well, it's certainly introduced no new problems, and the Hotfix gives you Crossfire in Eyefinity (for some games).

It does create problems with CCC. at least the hotfix did. ATI overdrive and manual fan control is broke for me. and Others on other forum are experiencing the same thing. So It's not just me.

Mmm fine for me, weird eh?