Displayport-compatible screens needed for Eyefinity?

Omarko · Post by **Omarko** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:08

gosh ... another adapter! crazy !

Im gonna wait until u guys get one of these DELL adapters and test it properly with games etc to confirm that it actually works ...

also, seems like Eyefinity works with CF ????

http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-eyfinity-editorial-review/1

Post by **BHawthorne** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:09

Wasn't the Apple adapter the one the admin over at [H] was "having issues" with mentioned earlier in the thread? Of course he was using a dp to mini-dp adapter in front of it to get it to work with the standard port out card. The passive adapter in front of the active might have been the issue in his case (guessing).

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:10

So is the Apple adaptor active/DP+? And I can get it NZ :)

Apple Active mini-DP->DVI

It has a USB lead, so I would guess so.

I hate how Google changes results so fast. I searched for this a few hours ago and it was the first hit in Google. Now, nothing - just the 'passive' adaptors. Had to hunt through the Apple store manually to find the damned thing.

I'll just say this... for a company with such... "enthusiastic" fans... this adaptor doesn't appear to be well received. Most of the user reviews I saw of it rip it apart.

Post by **Mach1.9pants** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:11

Ah there is an Apple (cheap) mini-DP to SINGLE link DVI - won't work- and an (expensive) mini-DP to DUAL link DVI - should work-

http://store.apple.com/nz/product/MB571Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ&mco=Nzk2MDk3Ng

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:11

gosh ... another adapter! crazy !

Im gonna wait until u guys get one of these DELL adapters and test it properly with games etc to confirm that it actually works ...

also, seems like Eyefinity works with CF ????

http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-eyfinity-editorial-review/1

We've already come to the conclusion that he might have had two cards in there, but it almost certainly wasn't working in CrossFire. :(

Post by **Mach1.9pants** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:19

We've already come to the conclusion that he might have had two cards in there, but it almost certainly wasn't working in CrossFire. :(

YET*

*I really really hope!

Post by **BHawthorne** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:20

gosh ... another adapter! crazy !

Sure it's another adapter, but we're talking about driver level integration for multi-screen gaming now. 6 months ago that would have been seen as science fiction. I have a bone to pick about the whole active adapter business, but it's better than the previous alternatives.

thenjwaslike · Post by **thenjwaslike** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:27

5870 has landed =) along with these 3x samsungs (boxes are huge)

im at work right now, i'll be posting pics along with the dell adapter tomorrow.

gonna fiddle with this card at work, all the techs at this pc store i work at - all want to see benchies, its the first thing im doing when i get home.

so tomorrow before 3pm with the dell adapter results, hold tight guys

Post by **BHawthorne** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:33

While I'm thinking about it, here's a question that hasn't been asked:

Can we get a standard 5870 now and CrossFire it in the future with a 6-port version of the card? Are there any vendors selling 2GB standard port out cards at the moment? Will there be any 6-port cards with 1GB memory so to match up with the current cards?

How will CrossFire work with different port-out cards? Can I use the 6-port card as my main port out card and just CroosFire standard versions of the card with it in the future?

Sure, CrossFire with EyeFinity doesn't work now, but many of us would like to account for it in the future.

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:37

Yes, Mach, I agree. Yet. :) But there is a world of difference between "EyeFinity on CrossFire" which is what that Guru3D article implies, and it working in the future. In fact, if that article doesn't have CrossFire working, they could potentially be harming EyeFinity as a tech because people will look and go, "Ouch, that's a big performance hit..."

I get 200fps+ in DMC4 @ 1920x1200 with max details, and still have >100fps if I turn AA and AF up to ridiculous levels... so seeing 45fps on EyeFinity with no AA would make me say, "Ouch, that's a big performance hit..." if I hadn't decided that actually, CF isn't working.

...

I trust AMD/ATi to get it working more than I do nVidia recently (endless renaming, deliberately breaking PhysX support in newer drivers if ATi graphics cards are present in the system) especially since EyeFinity is such a power-hungry tech by it's very nature. Driving three screens isn't easy on the GPU, as evidenced by the fact that playable framerates in Triplehead setups basically demanded SLI a few weeks ago. Now we've got a card that can drive three 1920x1200 screens all by itself... and keep it more or less playable. But in order to make it as good as it can be, CF and EF need to work together.

...

thenjwaslike: Nice. Look forward to pics. ;)

...

This is incredible. I have to admit, EyeFinity has got me more enthusiastic about computers and gaming than I have been in months. First thing I do after I submit is gonna be a present to myself in the form of a 5850 (or pair, if the drivers at the time support EF and CF together) and a Dell U2410... :D :oops:

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 28 Sep 2009, 21:40

While I'm thinking about it, here's a question that hasn't been asked:

Can we get a standard 5870 now and CrossFire it in the future with a 6-port version of the card? Are there any vendors selling 2GB standard port out cards at the moment? Will there be any 6-port cards with 1GB memory so to match up with the current cards?

How will CrossFire work with different port-out cards? Can I use the 6-port card as my main port out card and just CroosFire standard versions of the card with it in the future?

Sure, CrossFire with EyeFinity doesn't work now, but many of us would like to account for it in the future.

If we're lucky, CrossFire doesn't look at the TMDS transmitters, just the GPUs themselves to see if they'll pair. As with CrossFire only one cards ports work anyway.

Dave Baumann might be able to reveal more. Then again, he might not be able to for whatever reasons.

Until then, we can cross our fingers. ;)

Personally, I'd like one-card-per-monitor-EyeFinity working too. driving a screen off each card should negate the need for DisplayPort adaptors (I'd hope!) and give some truly impressive framerates. Of course, syncing the frames would be a challenge... :(

Magic Man · Post by **Magic Man** » 28 Sep 2009, 22:09

[quote]I don't think anyone here is asking for ATi to do a "no extra cost" value add feature. I think what most of us are saying is that there should be some variation of the card that does away with DP and uses all DP+ that we'll happily pay the premium for over having to deal with active adapter costs. Would DP+ port not cost us less than a bunch of active adapters?

Simply put, yes, as it would require an entriely new ASIC specifically for this.

With that in mind, is the architecture capable of 6 DP+ ports on the 6 mini-dp card?

No. Again, its DP that makes this capable, and the architecture behind DP.

There is a pre-established market for EyeFinity and it's not currently properly targeting it. EyeFinity should set the bar low enough to allow it to gain acceptance and the DP requirement is an impediment to that, especially if DP+ could be used for a marginal increase in cost.

You're thinking only in terms of that market. Bear in mind that all previous graphics boards can only drive 2 displays, so most users will either have one or two panels - for them, adding Eyefinity capabilities means they need to add another display or two anyway.

But what I don't understand is that it has already been shown that a single link DVI output works fine via a passive DP to DVI connection (dazboots had it working).
The diagrams shows that there are 6 tmds units. A dual link dvi output would need two but single link dvi output, hdmi and DP only need one. If the DP output on the current 5870 card has shown to be fully capable of driving a SL DVI output via a passive connection then why can't the remaining tmds units, i.e. all six outputs of the Eyefinity6 card do the same? If it is capable of driving 6 x 2560x1600 dp outputs via a single tmds each then why can't it drive 6 x 1920x1200 HDMI/DVI outputs that also only require a single tmds each and thus don't require active adaptors?

What if someone wanted to drive 6 DVI/HDMI panels from the card, 6 active adaptors? Each with their own power supply???

Post by **Mach1.9pants** » 28 Sep 2009, 22:35

What if someone wanted to drive 6 DVI/HDMI panels from the card, 6 active adaptors? Each with their own power supply???

Yes, sad but true! Almost: 2 ports are legacy capable so the passive adaptors would work with 2, the other 4 need their own active adaptor...$100 each! As to the tech specs, I don't quite understand it myself but a fact is a fact. can't fight it. According to Dave B. DP is an enabler of the more than 2 screen tech, so we have to live with it..... unless an OEM changes something major to release a 'legacy EF card'. Can't see it myself

Magic Man · Post by **Magic Man** » 28 Sep 2009, 23:07

But that's what I don't understand, dazboots has run a DVI output from the DP on his card via a passive connection. I understand why dual link DVI resolutions require two tmds units but the diagrams show that for single link dvi and hdmi resolutions a single tmds is all that is required together with a passive connector as verified by dazboots.

If you can run one single link dvi (or HDMI) from one DP output, can you do the same with the others. If not, why not?

Post by **BHawthorne** » 28 Sep 2009, 23:07

Personally, I'd like one-card-per-monitor-EyeFinity working too. driving a screen off each card should negate the need for DisplayPort adaptors (I'd hope!) and give some truly impressive framerates. Of course, syncing the frames would be a challenge... :(

No more so than SoftTH imho. The thing is it puts a tax on the hardware -- be it the main GPU or the PCIe bandwidth required to push to the other cards. I'd love for EyeFinity to bridge GPUs and cards, but we're just now only able to see it single GPU for a couple of days now. That sounds like more of a EyeFinity II feature for the future. I'd mostly just want to see them nail down the features the current EyeFinity has and make it CrossFire compatible. Gotta crawl before we walk. :)

Post by **BHawthorne** » 28 Sep 2009, 23:10

[quote]What if someone wanted to drive 6 DVI/HDMI panels from the card, 6 active adaptors? Each with their own power supply???

Yes, sad but true! Almost: 2 ports are legacy capable so the passive adaptors would work with 2, the other 4 need their own active adaptor...$100 each! As to the tech specs, I don't quite understand it myself but a fact is a fact. can't fight it. According to Dave B. DP is an enabler of the more than 2 screen tech, so we have to live with it..... unless an OEM changes something major to release a 'legacy EF card'. Can't see it myself

I had it confirmed earlier in the thread that it would require 2 passive adapters and 4 active.

Dave Baumann · Post by **Dave Baumann** » 28 Sep 2009, 23:26

But what I don't understand is that it has already been shown that a single link DVI output works fine via a passive DP to DVI connection (dazboots had it working).
The diagrams shows that there are 6 tmds units. A dual link dvi output would need two but single link dvi output, hdmi and DP only need one. If the DP output on the current 5870 card has shown to be fully capable of driving a SL DVI output via a passive connection then why can't the remaining tmds units, i.e. all six outputs of the Eyefinity6 card do the same? If it is capable of driving 6 x 2560x1600 dp outputs via a single tmds each then why can't it drive 6 x 1920x1200 HDMI/DVI outputs that also only require a single tmds each and thus don't require active adaptors?

While there are Six TMDS/DP transmitters, there are only 2 clock sources on the ASIC. The issue with legacy display is that they all need their own clock generator - as soon as you plug in two DVI/VGA/HDMI you run out of clock sources. DP can time multiple outputs from a single clock generator.

What we do with these boards is add an additional clock source externally from the ASIC that is good for driving DP timing, but unfotunatly not others (the clock source is actually shared for another use, so we can't just arbitarily have any timing).

If you plug in a passive adapter to the DVI+DVI+HDMI+DP design then you it will use an internal clock source, up until you start plugging in other panels.

What if someone wanted to drive 6 DVI/HDMI panels from the card, 6 active adaptors? Each with their own power supply???

As already posted, 2 can be passive in this scenario.

Post by **suiken_2mieu** » 28 Sep 2009, 23:26

So the real question is "why didn't ati just make all port DP+?" I would pay the bit of extra it would cost to add the extra support. It just doesn't make since in this day in age to not make things backwards compatible.

Magic Man · Post by **Magic Man** » 28 Sep 2009, 23:58

Thanks for the reply Dave, much appreciated. Sorts the issue out in my head.

I'm looking at three DP panels to go along with my existing three DVI panels - two passive and one active converter then to run three DVI outputs in addition to three DP outputs.

Will await to see what active converter 'deals' Scan can do...

Summoner · Post by **Summoner** » 29 Sep 2009, 01:14

[quote]I don't think anyone here is asking for ATi to do a "no extra cost" value add feature. I think what most of us are saying is that there should be some variation of the card that does away with DP and uses all DP+ that we'll happily pay the premium for over having to deal with active adapter costs. Would DP+ port not cost us less than a bunch of active adapters?

Simply put, yes, as it would require an entriely new ASIC specifically for this.

Will 3/4way DVI EyeFinity be possible with forthcoming x2 cards? Assuming the clock gens are on the GPU chips themselves you'll have a total of 4 available instead of just two.

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