Widescreen Gaming Forum

I installed 32-bit Vista, the leaked "surround" betas from last month, and the Vista modded INF, only to find out that the drivers apparently don't do surround gaming unless you also have 3D monitors. It's either that, or the surround feature only works on Windows 7 32-bit (that is illogical, though).

I installed 32-bit Vista, the leaked "surround" betas from last month, and the Vista modded INF, only to find out that the drivers apparently don't do surround gaming unless you also have 3D monitors. It's either that, or the surround feature only works on Windows 7 32-bit (that is illogical, though).

Officially, Windows 7 is a requirement:

# Operating System

* Microsoft Windows 7 32-bit and 64-bit

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dv-system-requirements-surround-technology.html

No mention of Vista support, but I would find it odd if they don't support vista in their final drivers.

While that is true, it would make no sense that I could install Windows 7 drivers on Windows Vista only to lack one specific feature (the "spanning" option that apparently simultaneously controls Surround and Surround 3D).

Therefore, I conclude that the real problem is that, with those betas, you do actually need both Surround and 3D for the "spanning" option to appear.

While that is true, it would make no sense that I could install Windows 7 drivers on Windows Vista only to lack one specific feature (the "spanning" option that apparently simultaneously controls Surround and Surround 3D).

Therefore, I conclude that the real problem is that, with those betas, you do actually need both Surround and 3D for the "spanning" option to appear.

One of our insiders ran it on a 3X 60hz projector setup, so I don't think you need 3d for this. Only 3 screens. :)

Its soon ready I think though. Nvidia have updated their forum and added a surround section:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showforum=210

[quote]While that is true, it would make no sense that I could install Windows 7 drivers on Windows Vista only to lack one specific feature (the "spanning" option that apparently simultaneously controls Surround and Surround 3D).

Therefore, I conclude that the real problem is that, with those betas, you do actually need both Surround and 3D for the "spanning" option to appear.

One of our insiders ran it on a 3X 60hz projector setup, so I don't think you need 3d for this. Only 3 screens. :)

Its soon ready I think though. Nvidia have updated their forum and added a surround section:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showforum=210

That's just really weird, then. I installed 32-bit Vista on new HD, installed the drivers with the modded INF, and everything seemed fine...except that ONE option was missing - "span the displays." Why would they torture Vista users by removing the one feature that mattered from that beta!

But yes, Nvidia's new "deadline" is "end of June"...so here's hoping they (finally) deliver.

That's just really weird, then. I installed 32-bit Vista on new HD, installed the drivers with the modded INF, and everything seemed fine...except that ONE option was missing - "span the displays." Why would they torture Vista users by removing the one feature that mattered from that beta!

But yes, Nvidia's new "deadline" is "end of June"...so here's hoping they (finally) deliver.

Its weird, but not unlikely. The leaked beta (or alpha) might not have been ment for public and can be a W7 only driver. I have no doubt that within a week or two, there will be more official release (though probably beta first again), considering nvidia has opened the surround forum for posting. As far as I remember from their PR departement, we'll first see reviews of Nvidia surround before the drivers are released to public. :)

The reason these features would not work under vista is due to the Windows Display Driver Model.
Vista uses WDDM V1.0 which has a number of limitations like lack of support for multiple drivers if using ati and nvidia combined or even onboard gfx, lack of span mode and other multi monitor limitations unlike Win 7 which uses WDDM V1.1 which has added flexibility.

To update Vista with WDDM v1.1 it would require a rebuild of the OS itself essentialy turning it into win 7 as the WDDM operates as part of the System Kernal.

That doesn't make sense. Are you saying that Surround gaming will not work under Vista? Eyefinity certainly does, and I can run all three monitors in desktop mode (and using screensavers). Or are you just saying it is easier to make the feature work in Windows 7?

That doesn't make sense. Are you saying that Surround gaming will not work under Vista? Eyefinity certainly does, and I can run all three monitors in desktop mode (and using screensavers). Or are you just saying it is easier to make the feature work in Windows 7?

Afaik Nvidia Surround will only work under W7.

Source : http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dv-system-requirements-surround-technology.html

That doesn't make sense. Are you saying that Surround gaming will not work under Vista? Eyefinity certainly does, and I can run all three monitors in desktop mode (and using screensavers). Or are you just saying it is easier to make the feature work in Windows 7?

As I understand it ATI's Eyefinity technology is a hardware based solution, and as such the hardware is able to pass to windows what appears as a single monitor at the hardware level, this is how the eyefinity tech is able to work around the WDDM 1.0 limitations, Nvidia's solution however is a software solution at the driver level, something of which WDDM 1.0 does not have the flexability to handle.

With the introduction of WDDM 1.1 in win 7, Nvidia's solution can work due to the addition of "Support multiple drivers in a multi-adapter, multi-monitor setup".

These are the features added in WDDM1.1
"Windows 7 supports major additions to WDDM tentatively known as WDDM 1.1; the details of this new version were unveiled at WinHEC 2008. New features include [5]:

* DXGI 1.1, which features return of 2D GUI hardware acceleration for use by GDI [13] and Direct2D/DirectWrite (but not GDI+)
o BitBlt, StretchBlt, TransparentBlt
o AlphaBlend, ColorFill
o ClearType font support
* Direct3D 11 Device Driver Interface (DDI)
* DXVA-HD DDI [14]
* Hardware video overlay DDI [15]
* Optional AES 128 encryption
* Optional decoding of encrypted video content
* Support multiple drivers in a multi-adapter, multi-monitor setup" - NOTE: this does not mean SPAN mode form the days of XP.

WDDM 1.1 also changes the way in which gfx and system RAM is used, no longer requireing a duplicate copy of data in the system RAM unlike WDDM1.0 which if you start spanning multiple displays you would find that the system RAM would also get ate up leading to poorer performance.


If there are any WDDM guru's out there that beleive im wrong then please speak up.

If that is true, that's the first I'd heard of it. And I'd definitely have heard of someone bitching about it on the HardOCP forums or Anandtech if this were general knowledge.

Well, guess I better find out more and figure out if I need to waste even more money to get 3-monitor gaming from Nvidia, sigh...

It is general knowlege however its not that well documented, I happen to work at a large corperate company which deals with the WDDM technology, I have contacts here whom I have spoken to, to get a better understanding of the WDDM.
As I say, my comments above are how I have come to understand the situation, as I have looked hard for extra documentation to provide extra details, but other than some block diagrams I have been unable to find extra documentation with regards to further details to the additional features in WDDM 1.1.

Even internal powerpoint decks that discuss the display architecture fail to give detailed information about the new features, other than to simply list them.
I have asked my contact to see if he can provide any additonal documentation to these new features.

You're probably right. Well, off I go to buy W7...

I am eagerly awaiting the Windows 7 64Bit surround drivers as they will determine if I stick with my 3 x GTX280s or go for 2 x 470 or 480 cards (wife permitting) :D

Windows 7 is so good I cant believe anyone is still contemplating sticking with Vista :o

We have some good prices for Windows 7 on our site and dont forget Insiders get discount :D

I'm currently downloading mine; $30 for Windows Pro if you're a student...or, apparently, if your dad is a professor. :)

WinXP to Win7 - No Regrets

I finally made the leap to Win7 Ult x64 with a recent cpu/mboard/ram upgrade...I did install dual boot with XP first then Win7, but its been two weeks now and I haven't needed or wanted to go back to XP yet...never used Vista for more than a day at a time, always went back to XP. Win7 has a few annoying quirks, but I am hacking the registry to get rid of them (dumb desktop icons Libraries and Homegroup) or writing AutoIt scripts to auto-press this or that annoying button...(When I move a folder, don't bug me about thumbs.db or desktop.ini !)...

Overall Win7 is stable (no crashes yet for two weeks), prettier than XP, and dx10/dx11 does a make a difference in some games...(Crysis Warhead Enthusiast Mode is like a different game).

Will be getting another GTX 470 if I hear how surround is working well for everyone, for now SoftTH is still doing nicely...but triplewide + dx10/dx11 would be nice (SoftTH is dx9 only)...

I am not too interested in 3D Vision, I tried the nVidia shutter glasses many years ago and found games harder to play and too dark...

Nvidia 3D Vision Surround drivers are finally out !! :D

:rockout Deserves a new thread. Make one with a link and I'll sticky it. :D
Edit:

Seeing your not online, I can make one.

Awesome I will try these later :D

Seeing your not online, I can make one.

Cool ! :wink: