Widescreen Gaming Forum

That's a funny/sad read, Fox.

Yet more measures that punish legitimate buyers more than anyone. Stupid Ubi. StUbidsoft? a litle clumsy?


PS - these damned geese seem to be flying lower and lower every day. Gonna have one crash through a pane at this rate.

They had already announced the game would be played online on Ubi's servers, not sure why everyone acts surprised when they spell out what that means... we all knew what it meant didn't we?

Anyway, Assassin's Creed saved every 5 seconds when you did ANYTHING, so I assume this one will do the same, I'm not really worried about losing progress. The constant internet connection thing is annoying and will only punish customers of course, but honestly am I the only one with a constant internet connection? People are acting like their internet still works like it did in 1999 but I get like one drop in service a month, if that.

I am not defending the DRM really, it is too harsh, but honestly if it manages to stop piracy and they patch it out eventually so I can still play the game in 20 years I could see it being worth it. I would bet the vast majority of people are playing the game on a constant internet connection anyway, just like most people do on Xbox Live even though there is no DRM there what-so-ever. MMOs have shown a constant online connection is acceptable and works for most people... seems like people are getting angry just to do so.

DRM-free is best, yes, but piracy is killing the platform we all love. There has to be some give and take to save our gaming.

DRM-free is best, yes, but piracy is killing the platform we all love. There has to be some give and take to save our gaming.

If it actually works, then great. I really don't think it will work though.

And I was without internet for 5 hours today, I turned to my neglected singleplayer games for joy.

[quote]DRM-free is best, yes, but piracy is killing the platform we all love. There has to be some give and take to save our gaming.

If it actually works, then great. I really don't think it will work though.

That is basically where I am at...

There are no install limits, there are no clunky client programs (we assume) and they have said they will patch out the online requirement when the servers go down. That means two things to me:

1) Despite having to play online I can feel like I own the product, its function not limited by anything more than internet access.
2) It will work in 20 years, which I find essential.

If it stops piracy then it is worth that sacrifice. It is worth the minor issues that might crop up on their end, and it is worth not being able to play it for the 10 minutes a month I might not have internet.

If it doesn't work though, I will hate it, because it will not serve a purpose but to annoy me.

Decompile as2.bin

Search source files all references to a connection and all points that connect to servers, trace though to find any relevant lines.

Replace
if (server_connect_status == valid)
with
if (true)

replace
if (server_connect_status == invalid)
with
if (false)

replace
if (server_connect)
with
if (true)

Recompile as2.bin
Distribute Crack
Stick middle finger up at Ubisoft.


Yer, its really going to stop them.
What I don't get is why Ubisoft is making this dumb ass move when Prince of Persia was release without DRM and it wasn't pirated more or less then any other game, while Spores was pirated shit loads more because of the DRM put on it.

When are they going to learn that 1 download is not equal to 1 lost sale, the vast majority of pirates, regardless of there reason to pirate a game, would not buy the game if they couldn't download it. Most pirates are people who ether can't get the game where they live, can't afford the game, or don't know if they want the game so want to try it first, not people who think ohh i can get it for free, then say, I can't get it for free, I guess I'll buy it which are a very small collection of pirates.

I like how you make broad assumptions and generalizations about both the AC2 DRM system and pirates in general in one post.

On the tech side we have no idea how much will be downloaded while you play or what kind of continous server authorizations will take place. Your little example could end up being absolutely nothing like the end game. DRM has worked before in the past for a good length of time with far weaker systems and I don't know many MMOs with perfectly playable pirated versions.

And the thing is, even though almost every PC gamer on every forum anywhere will tell you trying to stop pirates is pointless it's not. Yes, some of these people would never buy a game, but a lot of them would if given no alternative. Spend time on pirate forums and you will see the comments from spoiled brats who want to play X game and the crack won't work and blah blah blah "guess I have to buy it lol!" Games with DRM that gave them a window of no piracy have shown larger early sales that expected, one example I know of being Mass Effect.

People are jerks. People steal stuff because they can, it's that simple. Remove the "can" and a lot of them will pay for it so they can play it, they are spoiled after all. If I made multi-million dollar games I would not go "oh well, some people are gonna steal it." I would do whatever I had to do to make sure if anyone played my game they paid me first, simple as that. The trick is DRM that stops piracy and also doesn't totally screw over the consimer. In my opinion asking me to be online while I play is not a horrible request, I am always online anyway, who cares? As long as it gets patched before the servers shut down I really don't consider it an issue that will effect me and it MAY stop the little bastards from stealing it.

I like how you make broad assumptions and generalizations about both the AC2 DRM system and pirates in general in one post.

The first part of my post wasn't meant as a literal example I was taking the piss and just pointing out people WILL crack it, without fail.

And my "broad assumption and generalization about pirates" is based off of research done by third party organisations not funded by the entertainment industry. "People are jerks. People steal stuff because they can, it's that simple." That is a broad and frankly narrow minded assumption. Next time read a post in context.

Also "pirate forums" is not the best way to get a broad opinion on a subject, forums attract a set of people with similar opinions or hobbies etc, your average pirate won't broadcast the fact they can't download the latest game.

Also using MMOs as an example for DRM that works is the best example because for one they don't really have any DRM, and for two once someone has got there hands on the database and code someone has to buy and maintain a server themselves, while normal games take little to nothing to maintain or crack.

Funny thing is, I've read several articles where developers and publishers claim that reselling of used games is a much bigger problem for them than piracy.. To the dev, a used game sale is the same as a pirated copy, except even worse because you know the person was even willing to spend money on the game, just not to the dev.

I'm not sure the DRM in Mass Effect is what made it sell better than expected either.. dunno if they realized a lot of PC gamers are sci-fi geeks, and I've seen them be way off in predictions more often than not. (Kane & Lynch?)

[quote]"People are jerks. People steal stuff because they can, it's that simple." That is a broad and frankly narrow minded assumption. Next time read a post in context.

It's pretty common sense. You were trying to come up with grander explanations of piracy when the real reason for most of them is that people are jerks, they want to play games, and they have the ability to do it for free.

All the "I just hate DRM" and all the "I am just testing it out" and all the "I am too poor" and blah blah blah is just BS, or at best a minority part of the problem. The bulk of pirates are people who love playing PC games and are too stupid to realize the reprecussions of their actions. Pretending they would be like "oh well, guess I will stop playing games forever" if piracy was stopped is just plain silly. They love playing games, why else would they do so? Take away the free games entirely and they would have to pay for them.

Now the hackers, that's a different story. Most of them do it just for the fun of the actual hacking, as far as I can tell.

Funny thing is, I've read several articles where developers and publishers claim that reselling of used games is a much bigger problem for them than piracy..

In console land, where almost every major developer and publisher has major stock in, this has some truth, if measured strictly in terms of how much more money they might make if people didn't do it. Very few people pirate console games, but lots of people buy them second hand.

And yet, second hand games aren't really a "problem" at all. Every single copy of a game bought used, was originally bought new. And only a percentage of the customers who bought their game new will ever wish to part with it, and most of them won't do that until they've completed the game themselves, which forces used game buyers to wait their turn. The second hand market cannot be large enough to really eat into potential profits unless the first hand market is successful.

Re-selling a product is a customer right, and most non-consumable products are made with the understanding that a percentage of the customers will re-sell it, and are therefore priced accordingly.

If it doesn't work though, I will hate it, because it will not serve a purpose but to annoy me.

I think thats where you and the rest of us differ though. You seem to be expecting it to succeed, we expect it to fail. After it fails we will all be back on the same page according to this quote.

[quote][quote]"People are jerks. People steal stuff because they can, it's that simple." That is a broad and frankly narrow minded assumption. Next time read a post in context.

It's pretty common sense.

No its not, its a sweeping generalisation about a group of people you don't agree with to the point it gets to you on some level. If pirates where classed as a demographic, like gays, that kind of remark would be considered prejudice as you are assuming with no prove, what most pirates think and the reasons behind it. OK so used an extrema example but the principal is the same, assuming almost every pirate is doing it for bad or immoral reasons is just wrong in itself.

So I stand by my opinion that's incredibility narrow minded, just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean you should make sweeping statements like that, if anything else it just makes it seem like your not considering any other points of view.

BTW, I've tried to word this very carefully so as avoid insulting or offending you.

No its not, its a sweeping generalisation

It's common sense, and denying it is absurd. Pickpockets steal because they want money. Shoplifters shoplift because they don't want to pay. Pirates pirate because they don't want to pay.

about a group of people you don't agree with to the point it gets to you on some level.

Don't downplay theft.

If pirates where classed as a demographic, like gays, that kind of remark would be considered prejudice as you are assuming with no prove, what most pirates think and the reasons behind it.

Again, it's complete common sense. Common sense does not need proof. Contrariness to common sense needs proof. It's not prejudice to make a common sense claim no matter who you are discussing. For instance, the majority of gays desire equal rights. I have no evidence or proof of this, but I'm claiming it anyway, and you are not going to tell me I'm being "prejudiced" for assuming what most gays think in this regard.

assuming almost every pickpocket is doing it for bad or immoral reasons is just wrong in itself.

Look at what I did to your claim. Does it make any sense now? If not, why are software thieves so special that they are entitled to a benefit of the doubt that any other kind of thief would not?

I think you miss understood Skids position...

Skid is saying that people pirate for certain reasons, not simply because they are assholes.

assuming almost every pickpocket is doing it for bad or immoral reasons is just wrong in itself.

Look at what I did to your claim. Does it make any sense now? If not, why are software thieves so special that they are entitled to a benefit of the doubt that any other kind of thief would not?

It makes perfect sense... the number one reason to pickpocket is probably because someone has no money and wants food for them selves or even their children. If that's a bad or immoral reason then lock me up...

There are still some modern day robin hood's, "Steal from the rich, give to the poor", I think that's bad but not immoral.

Now I'm sure there are some people who do not need the money who simply steal because they can, which is bad and immoral like Skid was talking about...

In legal terms piracy is not theft its breach of copyright, and the public is split down the middle with if they thing illegal file sharing is stealing.

For example on last weeks 8 out of 10 cats they used a survey with the question Is illegal downloading stealing, 59% said no.

Your "common sense" appears to not be as common as you might think. Hence why I still stand by that is a narrow minded point of view to take.

I was also putting in the remark DaFox just made but I see I don't need to know.



There is an underlying reason as to why I disagree with your point of view, while I was in secondary school and collage I only had enough money to get maybe 4 games a year, so my friends would always trade games and let each other make copies of them. Now that I can afford my games its mainly thanks to the games I had pirated that I choose to play the games I do now, and even bough games of otherwise smaller titles I may of otherwise overlooked.

This type of behaviour is especially true of music pirates, time and again its been show then the people that spend the most money of music and mp3s are the pirates, the reason, there is more music out there for them to consume then they have money to pay for it.

Skid is saying that people pirate for certain reasons, not simply because they are assholes.

I understood that just fine. It's a load of crap. People who acquire a product without paying for it... want a product and don't want to pay for it. It's not "certain reasons."

the number one reason to pickpocket is probably because someone has no money and wants food for them selves or even their children.

We have social programs such as welfare for that. Your province does too. Being poor sucks, but it doesn't mean starvation. Try again.

There are still some modern day robin hood's, "Steal from the rich, give to the poor",

Like who?

Now I'm sure there are some people who do not need the money who simply steal because they can,

And I'm sure this applies to the VAST majority of thieves.

In legal terms piracy is not theft its breach of copyright

Widely believed myth, but it's not true. Theft is a very broad term, and displacing a physical object is only one kind of it. You take something that doesn't belong to you without the owner's permission, you are stealing.

For example on last weeks 8 out of 10 cats they used a survey with the question Is illegal downloading stealing, 59% said no.
Your "common sense" appears to not be as common as you might think.

It just means that common sense is easy to overlook when free games is involved.

Hence why I still stand by that is a narrow minded point of view to take.

It's a logical point of view. If there's only one logical explanation, I'm not one to ignore reality just for the sake of being "open minded." Pirates want free games is no more narrow minded than 2+2=4.

There is an underlying reason as to why I disagree with your point of view, while I was in secondary school and collage I only had enough money to get maybe 4 games a year, so my friends would always trade games and let each other make copies of them.

Maybe you could have gotten a part time job, and therefore helped the economy as well as earn your games. And don't tell me there was no time for it. If you had time to play games, you had time for a part-time job.

The number one reason to pickpocket is probably because someone has no money and wants food for them selves or even their children.

I would pickpocket for fun if I had the ability. I could pretend to be a spy or something. I wouldn't give a crap about any kids though. Why should I? I would be a pickpocket.

Now if I was a prostitute, I would support my kids then cause I could pretend I am a manwhore with a heart of gold.

Widely believed myth, but it's not true. Theft is a very broad term, and displacing a physical object is only one kind of it. You take something that doesn't belong to you without the owner's permission, you are stealing.

Incorrect, in the UK piracy is copyright infringement which is a civil offence, while stealing is a criminal offence. Also to steal something you must remove the orginal, hense why its COPYright infringement not stealing.

It just means that common sense is easy to overlook when free games is involved.

The question was about illegal downloading in general not free games, and common sense is mostly dictated by common consensus.

It's a logical point of view. If there's only one logical explanation, I'm not one to ignore reality just for the sake of being "open minded." Pirates want free games is no more narrow minded than 2+2=4.

Just because its logical doesn't mean correct, things aren't invented because people think of the logical step forward, they think outside the box to invent new products, logic is just cold in the real world.

Maybe you could have gotten a part time job, and therefore helped the economy as well as earn your games. And don't tell me there was no time for it. If you had time to play games, you had time for a part-time job.

I had a part time job thank you very much, don't make assumptions, I also went to a fencing club.

Incorrect, in the UK piracy is copyright infringement which is a civil offence, while stealing is a criminal offence.

"Stealing" does not refer to a single type of behavior. You can't say it's a "criminal offence" that precludes copyright infringement.

Also to steal something you must remove the orginal

Not at all. There are many kinds of theft. Not all of them involve "removing the original." For instance, if I embezzle funds, that's theft, and yet the "original" is a wad of paper that stays in the bank vault.

The question was about illegal downloading in general not free games

What I said about free games applies equally to just about anything one might download.

common sense is mostly dictated by common consensus.

Common consensus would usually agree that to cheat someone out of payment for services rendered is a form of stealing. And yet, when this is boiled down to a mouse click, the temptation is difficult to avoid, and one rationalizes to avoid thinking of themselves as a thief.

Just because its logical doesn't mean correct,

It's a much stronger case for being correct than anything you've offered to the contrary.

things aren't invented because people think of the logical step forward, they think outside the box to invent new products

People don't *defy* logic to get things invented either. Thinking out of the box and being logical aren't mutually exclusive. Doing both is pretty much required unless your goal is to invent things that don't work.

I had a part time job thank you very much, don't make assumptions,

I had assumed you were being truthful when you said you only had enough money to afford four games per year. Part time jobs tend to generate more income than that.

With regards to points 1, 2 they have there own terminology to separate them in terms of law not group them together.

Common consensus in that matter is not as black and white as you think people believe it is.

I never said one way or the other whether I thought it was right or wrong, my argument is you should think of things as as black and white as you and Velvet is.

To the last point, yes, computer, laptop, living, rent, textbooks and college are all free so I had a shit load of money floating around. :roll: for someone using decent points so far I'm a little surprised you didn't think that one though. Also I take special exception to people who randomly call or imply I'm a lier, although I take greater exception for people who tell me I'm not allowed my point for view but I don't expect people to do that here.