Far Cry 2 Pre-Order/Left4Dead/Fallout 3 + Current DRM Talk

Osuperman · Post by **Osuperman** » 15 Oct 2008, 05:37

Guess I won't buy this one either.

LOL me either, well they've saved me some dosh. I was undecided and would have probably bought this game if the reviews were good; but now I'll just leave it :) I'm not interested in a replay of the BioShock activation fiasco.

Mokbol · Post by **Mokbol** » 15 Oct 2008, 06:27

what I've seen, Far Cry 2 looks like it could be pretty sweet, so I'm hoping that it won't have any DRM systems in it that I object to

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 15 Oct 2008, 06:58

This looks like one I might just pirate and eventually purchase once it goes DRM-free.

Stec · Post by **Stec** » 15 Oct 2008, 11:07

I will report on how it actually works in the real world. It sucks--that's true--the IDEA of it sucks. We all know that DRM only hurts the paying customers. But, clearly, the suits at EA (and now Ubi) are on this DRM kick the last couple of years.

Again, while I dislike it very much the limitations--on paper--don't seem like a big deal and read far less draconian than the EA Spore debacle. We'll see. I won't be canceling my pre-order and will post my experience.

Stec · Post by **Stec** » 15 Oct 2008, 19:06

Some additional clarifications from the Ubi rep "Ubi.Vigil":

Okay, so "only five activations" is not accurate.

You can install the game on three machines, and each machine gets five activations. As soon as you uninstall the game on a PC, the serial is revoked for another installation.

In rare cases where the five activations aren't enough, tech support will be able to assist. Since your activations are verified online they can also be ammended, though only if issues arise from using the five activations (somehow!)

quote:
Originally posted by imstreet:
So it means , as long as i uninstall the game i can install it as many times i want?

What about the steam version?! I have my pre order there.
Theres no installuninstall thing, how to revoke the key there?

As long as you uninstall while connected online, then yes, it should revoke that activation and you can install on another machine. Steam uses its own separate DRM system.

quote:
Originally posted by CuZtds_Lst_Stnd:
Vigil can you confirm that the three seperate machines can have the game installed and activated concurrently? (Not running, although that is a question others would probably want answered)

That's my understanding, yes. You'll also need the disc in the drive to start the game.

quote:
Originally posted by flabacari:
Say I was to have the game installed on three systems, be it one at a time or all at once, and one or all of these systems became outdated. If I revoked the activation on each computer would I then be able to use a different three computers, or is the rule that once it is on 3, those are the only 3 it will EVER be on.

Every time you revoke the activation you can install the game on a different machine. So yes, you could uninstall/revoke on three then put it on three completely different machines.

quote:
Originally posted by TheHoboInABox:

quote:
Originally posted by iennasser888:
Is there a requirement to be connected to the Internet at any time ?

To install and play multi player I guess.

Correct, a net connection is needed to activate or uninstall/revoke. Plus of course multiplayer. You don't need a permanent connection.

quote:
Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
With Ubi using this new version of SecurROM, which is quite similar to Starforce with a new twist, I am interested in what happens and what plays out.

This is very, very different to Star Force in approach. Star Force was controversial for the system priveleges it granted itself and subsequent issues this caused. There was no online activation element.

And this from community developer Atmon:

Hey There,

Let me clarify that, we are not using a system as draconian as that.
FC2 come with a newer version of SecuROM, providing a â€œrevokeâ€

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 15 Oct 2008, 20:05

Stec, Steam has the same limits:

Best of luck to you if you decide to go for the game. I hope it treats you nice.

My position is simple, as soon as I pay for a product, there should be zero artificial barriers impeding my use of that product. I will not ask permission to play a game.

It looks like L4D and Fallout 3 are the only big games that will get my dollars. Of course there's also GOG.com :) .

I posted this SecuROM summary on the Ubi forums:

Secondhand
Exterminating
Customer
Undermining
Restrictive
Operating
Mechanism

Stec · Post by **Stec** » 15 Oct 2008, 20:41

Yep saw that confirmed by Steam after I posted. I saw your post there as well and it was very well-stated. (thumbs up)

I can't see this implementation really being a hassle for most people though, especially with the Steam version. Granted, I hate that they are using DRM. :evil: I don't hate it enough to pass on this title, however. :?

I'm theorizing that the Steam version will be better than the hard copy as you'll never need to satisfy the supposed SecuROM requirement of playing with the disc in the drive. With that aside, after installation I'd expect playing it will be like any other game.

Again, I'll be sure to detail my experience for posterity and whether this DRM is as friendly as stated on the Ubi boards.

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 15 Oct 2008, 21:23

Thanks for the thumbs, Stec. ;)

I would like to hear your feedback, although the only complete evaluation of this kind of DRM can be made after years have passed, since the 'gotchas' are activation limits and testing the waters of Ubisoft's long-term customer support (still waiting for that Raven Shield SDK...).

Projecting this business course out a few years, I must consider what DRM like this means 5-10 years from now. What if most of the industry follows suit? I've got well over 100 games installed. If most games start using such DRM, that would mean I would have to uninstall dozens of titles 'correctly' in order to de-activate properly, before reformating my system. No thanks.

The fact that EA is unabashedly ditching offline-play confirms that industry players are hot'n'heavy to change their business models. Their goal is obvious: transform all games into service-type products so that they can force subscription-style payments. What industry exec doesn't drool over the loads of cash WoW brings in monthly? What exec doesn't look at the massive CounterStrike population and think "How the heck can we get those guys to buy something new?" 5, 10, 15 machine install limits are now, how about 1 machine later? If pubs could get away with restricting a game to a single machine permanently, they would do that. But that would be too much change, too fast. So how do you administer the posion without arousing too much suspicion? In progressive, small doses, while singing a lullaby.

-edit-
Wow. Maybe I'm a prophet or something. How's this for evidence of where game publishers are headed:

each copy of Gears of War 2 will ship with a unique, one-time-use code for downloading extra multiplayer levels. Once the code has been used, subsequent owners of that copy of the game will be unable to download the levels.
And NBA Live 09 will include a similar free, one-time code for accessing daily roster and stat updates. If you buy a used copy of NBA Live 09 and the previous user has already redeemed the code, you'll have to pay $20 to get the updates. source

Stec · Post by **Stec** » 16 Oct 2008, 10:51

You make some great points.

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 16 Oct 2008, 11:41

-edit-
Wow. Maybe I'm a prophet or something. How's this for evidence of where game publishers are headed:

each copy of Gears of War 2 will ship with a unique, one-time-use code for downloading extra multiplayer levels. Once the code has been used, subsequent owners of that copy of the game will be unable to download the levels.
And NBA Live 09 will include a similar free, one-time code for accessing daily roster and stat updates. If you buy a used copy of NBA Live 09 and the previous user has already redeemed the code, you'll have to pay $20 to get the updates. source

Something that I've said in the past:

You buy a book, resell it. You have done nothing wrong.

You buy a game, resell it. Your a thieve.

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 16 Oct 2008, 18:24

Something that I've said in the past:

You buy a book, resell it. You have done nothing wrong.

You buy a game, resell it. Your a thieve.

That's exactly how publishers see it. It is truly amazing what the game/software industry gets away with, simply because they can. If they tried some of their anti-consumer and anti-customer practices in any other industry, they'd get lynched.

Some good news is that US courts don't always play along. Awhile back Autodesk sued an ebay seller for reselling authentic, boxed copies of their software, arguing that the EULA specifically prohibited a license transfer. The judge slapped Autodesk with the First Sale doctrine and gave the ebay seller a giant green light to resell as much as he wanted.

Looks like there's no need to speculate anymore, EA's CEO is openly lusting after subscription models:

â€œThere are different ways to do DRM; the most successful is what WoW does. They just charge you by the month,â€

skeeder · Post by **skeeder** » 16 Oct 2008, 18:41

its similar to music drm

which just makes me post an xkcd

Stec · Post by **Stec** » 16 Oct 2008, 18:48

I've renamed the thread title to be more accurate.

Forums mods, edit as you see fit.

Post by **g00seberry** » 16 Oct 2008, 21:44

I download most of my games, yet I've just pre-ordered Left4Dead today almost as soon as it became available. Why? Forget DRM, I don't care. If i buy a game I'm gonna get a crack for it anyway so I don't have to shift disks around my desk.
I bought L4D beacuse I know that they have been working on it for some time, and pushing back the release date to make sure it's exactly how they want it, and exactly as good as it should be. Not pushing it out to get the cash they need for the next Quarter.
I know that Valve will continue to support the game frequently with updates. Not wait 3 months then release a single patch fixing a minor amount of issues then move onto the next instalment.
I know that Valve will listen to the community and implement ideas and feedback, not ignore posts on their forums and leave their customers in the dark.
I know that I will ALWAYS be able to play this game and servers for it will never disappear.

I also know this sounds like a right good bum licking for valve, but I can't think of another company which all these statements are true about. The point I'm trying to make is I'm not all that bothered about the DRM itself, seeing as it doesn't actually work, but the principles behind it's implementation. Get all the cash, screw all the customers.

Post by **Abram** » 16 Oct 2008, 23:32

Okay, nothing to do with DRM, but some FC2 benchmarking info. Sounds liek those recommended specs aren't so far off, after all. (unlike Clear Sky)

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,663817/Reviews/Far_Cry_2_GPU_and_CPU_benchmarks/?page=1

"All-clear: You don't need a high-end PC to run Far Cry 2 at playable framerates - even the "Ultra High” Settings are far from the brutal system requirements Crysis imposes. Even with a Core 2 Duo E6600 or an Athlon 64 X2 6000+ and a Geforce 9800 GT/8800 GT or a Radeon HD 4850 you can play the highest settings."

I get nice FPS with Crysis so i guess I'm okay for FC2.

EDIT: some PC gameplay videos. Is it me, or does the FOV look a little tight?

http://uk.media.pc.ign.com/media/951/951257/vids_1.html

Osuperman · Post by **Osuperman** » 20 Oct 2008, 15:34

Is it me, or does the FOV look a little tight?

Hey mikeh, I agree it does look a little tight... especially when your character runs. ARGG do you think they've gone the usual console way of Vert- ??

I guess we'll find out once it's released.

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 20 Oct 2008, 15:50

Is it me, or does the FOV look a little tight?

Lets put it this way I had to stop watching because i was getting a headache. And I get headaches on games that look too zoomed in like Bioshock before the patch.

Post by **Mach1.9pants** » 20 Oct 2008, 19:56

Bugger, that is disappointing. I, personally, get 'motion sickness' with that sort of thing...like MOH:AA :cry:

You can chuck me around in a jet but don't give me VERT- !!!!!!!!

::TrueWS

Osuperman · Post by **Osuperman** » 20 Oct 2008, 23:16

Bugger, that is disappointing. I, personally, get 'motion sickness' with that sort of thing...like MOH:AA :cry:

You can chuck me around in a jet but don't give me VERT- !!!!!!!!

::TrueWS

Ooooh are you a jet pilot mach1.9 pants? :D

Post by **Mach1.9pants** » 20 Oct 2008, 23:31

No, but my sacred gaming underpants once went Mach 1.9 ;)

Widescreen Gaming Forum