ATI Eyefinity Validated Dongles

[J. Elliott]

Fellas,

My first post here at WSGF. I've been a sometime lurker and think the site is tops. Have been dropping by for two years or so.

I teach HS math at an alternative school and decided to hook my kids up with computers this year. I have six stations outfitted with AMD 925/955's, 8800GTS or 250 GTS cards (chosen for CUDA transcoding apps), and 22" 1920 x 1080 widescreen monitors.

This week I splurged and bought a 5770 card for no reason other than to do Eyefinity. I've already got the hardware, so why not? It looks cool, even though I've aged out of gaming for the most part (44 years young). Gaming was Pong and Space Invaders on the Atari in my day, although I still keep up with trends. The kids ought to enjoy it anyway.

I've been researching the dongle issue, which has almost kept me from throwing in with Eyefinity. Since I was sitting on the rest of the equipment I've taken a leap of faith that something will work out, perhaps with a passive DP to VGA adapter. Although, from Googling, it seems there isn't an agreed upon dongle that always works, even for that.

Now, to the point - I was reading last night that ATI is trying to get a validated, passive single-link Dp to DVI unit onto their list of certified adapters. I see an Accell model listed on that page:

http://www.accellcables.com/products/DisplayPort/DP/dp_dvi.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Accell-B087B-001B-UltraAV-DisplayPort-Adapter/dp/B001CXXD2Q

The Amazon post has two reviews that say "No!" to using this with Eyefinity. The article I was reading last night at [H]OCP suggested the problem was with dongle firmware:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/02/23/amd_ati_radeon_dongle_gsod_issues_addressed

Any chance this dongle has had its firmware upgraded and now works with Eyefinity? Why else would it be listed on the Eyefinity validated dongles? I haven't been dogging this issue long enough to keep up with various dongles or whether this unit has had a recent firmware facelift. For all i know it has been there on the list the whole time, faking people into thinking there's a $25 DVI dongle solution for those of us with less-than-humongous panels.

Is this what we who have 1920 x 1200 or lower res monitors have been waiting for?

[iThinman]

No, sorry, a passive adapter will never work with the current EyeFinity cards on the market.

Here is the relavent passage from Wiki:

The display unit on Evergreen family of GPUs was completely replaced with one that has two DACs which are used to drive the DVI ports in analog mode (for example, when a DVI to VGA converter attached to a DVI port), a maximum of six digital transmitters that can output either a DisplayPort signal or a TMDS signal which is used for either DVI or HDMI, and two clock signal generators needed to drive the digital outputs in TMDS mode. Dual-link DVI displays use two of the two TMDS/DisplayPort transmitters and one clock signal each. Single-link DVI displays and HDMI displays use one TMDS/DisplayPort transmitter and one clock signal each. DisplayPort displays use one TMDS/DisplayPort transmitter and no clock signal.

The issue here is clock signals. There are only two and each of these are used by the DVI/HDMI connections hosting the other two monitors. A true DisplayPort monitor would not require a clock signal from the card, however, when converting the DisplayPort from the card to DVI/HDMI via an adapter, the DVI/HDMI monitor needs a clock signal to operate.

A passive adapter does not deliver the required clock signal.
An active adapter does deliver the required clock signal.

I'm not an electrical engineer, but I am fairly comfortable in saying that by its very nature and definition, a passive adapter could never deliver this signal. Regardless of who makes it and says it works.


Now for a little rant.

Here is the key to the statement 'it works with EyeFinity' or 'EyeFinity Approved'. EyeFinity in itself does not imply 3 monitors. EyeFinity works great with two monitors. And guess what? So do these little passive DP>DVI adapters.

Problem is, that isn't real world. Maybe 2% of the people when hearing 'EyeFinity' are thinking dual-monitors. They are thinking 3 monitors minimum. We know it, they know it and you cannot tell me that a Marketing Exec at AMD pulling in $200+k a year doesn't know it.

To come out with a list (http://support.amd.com/us/eyefinity/Pages/eyefinity-dongles.aspx) of "ATI Eyefinity Validated Dongles" with absolutely no mention of using these adapters with 3 monitor configurations is absolute BS, misleading and near criminal in my mind. There is no room for crap like this in the industry, especially from an established firm born in the heart of Silicon Valley.

Yeah, that's right, I played that card.

AMD, you need to get a leash on these ATI guys and I mean quick. This is the same lack of quality thinking and support minded organization that had me not recommending 'your' (then, 'their') products many years ago.

Dave Baumann, while I appreciate your presence and participation on these forums, I am afraid that I need to call you out on this one. If you claim to be the Product Manager for this product line, shame on you for not have a specific stickied post on this subject front and center for everyone to see. And also, shame on you for not demanding the above linked AMD page be clairifed to include details that the passive adapters will not work for >2 displays.

Here is the problem Dave in my opinion.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that this card requires an active adapter when using a non native Display Port monitor in a 3 monitor configuration.

There is everything wrong with the fact that this information is not clearly communicated by neither AMD nor it's Product Manager.





Period. End. Of. Rant.
Not my problem anymore. Mine works.

[J. Elliott]

Ah, clock signals/cycles, etc. I'd forgotten about this part.

I wholly agree with the above post. If the card had to be made this way and there is a hardware work-around, then so be it. But an active adapter is $100 and hard to find! Newegg is sold out, so you can't even have $15 knocked off as part of a combo.

And why in the world is the proper adapter, which I'd probably pay $40 to secure, so expensive? There's no way I'm going to pay $100 for such a thing, and AMD's failing to mention its necessity at each discussion of 3 monitor Eyefinity is what it is - deliberately misleading.

AMD is a multi-billion dollar company and can't get an affordable, required piece of equipment for its most recent BIG development to the marketplace? And lets it customers go to the expense and trouble of hacking out a feeble solution that might-or-might-not allow one to piece together a medley of analog and digital panels?

Heck, if I'm gonna go to work for AMD then I expect a paycheck....

[Evil_HAF]

Ok but heres the thing with the passive adapters,,,,from what i had read Displayport to VGA does work. I have only vga monitors not the dvi,which are all together a differant story. I will be testing this out with my 3 dell lcds which are native vga. At present i have converters on them to get them to work in my XFX 5770. I have yet to aquire my dp-vga converter but the only thing i have read thus far is that it only supports resulutions up to 1900x 1600. As soon as my adapter arrives i will post my results. But yeah when is ati gonna send us a check for all this TESTing we are all doing for there benifit? WTH !!!! I dont understand why we must pay 100.00 dollars for this extra item to make eyefinity work...seems to me its all a big scam to make someone rich. Yes the end result is sweet but we arent all made of money

[Tamlin]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that this card requires an active adapter when using a non native Display Port monitor in a 3 monitor configuration.

There is everything wrong with the fact that this information is not clearly communicated by neither AMD nor it's Product Manager.

I agree. Its not clear enough which adapter that actually work with a 3X screen eyefinity setup and thats something that needs to be clear. As it is, people find it to be a hazzle getting the necessary parts for an Eyefinity setup and it shouldn't be like this. Its a growing fustration among people here at WSGF and other forums and I hope that AMD will specify better what to buy.

I've PM'd Dave to bring his attention to this thread, but for future references, I would appreciate it if feedback like this was entered in the sticky about the AMD Eyefinity subsite here:
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=18042

I think it would be easier for the correct people to monitor feedback this way. :)

[Dave Baumann]

This has always been communicated that the DisplayPort Panel is required:

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5870/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5870-overview.aspx

Driver version 8.66 (Catalyst 9.10) or above is required to support ATI Eyefinity technology and to enable a third display you require one panel with a DisplayPort connector

If you don't have a DP panel then the required information for what adapters are supported are in the Eyefinity site:

http://www.amd.com/us/Documents/Display_Connectivity.pdf

Those same details have been passed on to our partners to communicate as well, i.e:

http://www.xfxforce.com/en-us/products/graphiccards/hd%205000series/5870.aspx
http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=293

[Tamlin]

The issue people have, is which dongle that is needed if you don't have a display port panel. The list here about "AMD Eyefinity Validated dongles" throws people off a bit and especially newcomers who never have tried multi-monitor gaming. After all, they are Eyefinity validated and for most that means 3 screens or more where the adapter enables use of third screen:
http://support.amd.com/us/eyefinity/Pages/eyefinity-dongles.aspx

[Dave Baumann]

We're a chip manufacturer and we have partners that make products based off our chips - at some point in time partners may choose to make boards with just one DVI and 2 or 3 DP's so we have to point out to partners and end users which adapters will operate in those conditions.

[Tamlin]

If you would specify which adapter that can be used for the third screen/adapter in cases where there is no native DP screen, people would be less confused. I've seen this page linked up several places when people ask which adapter to choose for third screen.:)

[Dave Baumann]

If you would specify which adapter that can be used for the third screen/adapter in cases where there is no native DP screen, people would be less confused. I've seen this page linked up several places when people ask which adapter to choose for third screen.:)

Well, it is specificed in that Display Configurations document.

Dave Baumann, while I appreciate your presence and participation on these forums, I am afraid that I need to call you out on this one. If you claim to be the Product Manager for this product line, shame on you for not have a specific stickied post on this subject front and center for everyone to see. And also, shame on you for not demanding the above linked AMD page be clairifed to include details that the passive adapters will not work for >2 displays.

Please take a look at the top of the forum under announcements, with the thread Threads of special interest for Eyefinity users Which links to other important thread such as:
Sapphire video on how to setup Eyefinity:
Displayport-compatible screens needed for Eyefinity? (Read my first reply in that thread)
Where to get DP-DVI Active Adaptors (& what to look for)

[Tamlin]

Well, it is specificed in that Display Configurations document.

Problem is that people don't know what to buy and even which active adapter that works.

Let me illustrate:
Here is from today where the "validated dongle" list is believed to be a list of approved dongles for third monitor:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=29443331

Check the post from Gamer guy here who do the same on a sales site:
http://forums.ncix.com/forums/?mode=showthread&forum=100&threadid=2132199&pagenumber=1&msgcount=8&subpage=1&product_id=47519

or this guy not knowing what to get and already bought a passive one that didn't work:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1034970729&postcount=14

Making it clear on that page which one that works or at least write a footnote on the passive ones that "for configuration of 3 displays or more, an active adapter or analog adapter is required", would make users less confused. :)

[BanjoDubz]

Making it clear on that page which one that works or at least write a footnote on the passive ones that "for configuration of 3 displays or more, an active adapter or analog adapter is required", would make users less confused.

That would be awesome. ATI are fooling themselves if they are thinking that they are making the info clear, concise and available. If ATI could create a nicer compatibility matrix that includes the configuration, it would make things easier for new customers. They only have to do a quick search to find that even the most tech savy of their customers (the early adopters) are finding it confusing.

[Dave Baumann]

Go to www.amd.com/eyefinity and the one of the links is "Learn how to configure your monitors, which then points to (among other things) Display Connectivity "How to connect displays to an ATI Eyefinity capable graphics card".

[Tamlin]

Where they will find this map explaining the different ways to configure Eyefinity. :)


I want to thank you for paying attention to this thread Dave. :)
Problem isn't that AMD have places where this information can be found, but people are shopping even so.

When AMD have a page saying "AMD Eyefinity Validated Dongle", people go there, since they have heard that there is issues with some dongles and also want lower prices for their dongles.

Eyefinity isn't "being able to connect a screen to a 5000 series GFX card from ATI" for people. People have been connecting to their screens long before Eyefinity. If ATI says that those adapters are AMD Eyefinity validated, we think 3 screens or more. I have been paying attention to Eyefinity since the beginning and find it to be one of the big things in gaming today. (A bit OT, but I am still waiting for the Samsung Eyefinity screens). Still, even I had to think twice after seeing a page with Eyefinity Validated adapters. When I have connected my screen to my 5870 card, I don't consider it to be Eyefinity and wouldn't consider it to be Eyefinity even if I used the DP to connect it.

I wouldn't even use the expression "Eyefinity Validated Adapter" for adapters that you cannot connect a 3rd screen with in a multi-monitor setup.

[Dave Baumann]

When AMD have a page saying "AMD Eyefinity Validated Dongle", people go there, since they have heard that there is issues with some dongles and also want lower prices for their dongles.

Unless they were linked directly to it from a forum thread or something, then you'd have gone through the Eyefinity site, where the links to display configurations, etc., are displayed.

I wouldn't even use the expression "Eyefinity Validated Adapter" for adapters that you cannot connect a 3rd screen with in a multi-monitor setup.

What happens if / when a partner start selling DP boards with no or one passive adapter? We have to cater for that case.

[Tamlin]

Unless they were linked directly to it from a forum thread or something, then you'd have gone through the Eyefinity site, where the links to display configurations, etc., are displayed.

People link directly to it in forums. and people believe that this is adapters that AMD have tested and approved for Eyefinity (3 screens or more version). Thats the big problem. It confuses people. Even here at WSGF where you can find multiple places with the correct info, people still makes threads about the adapters.

What happens if / when a partner start selling DP boards with no or one passive adapter? We have to cater for that case.

Then please cater for the 5000 series and up cards, not Eyefinity. When you start mixing Eyefinity validated into this, along with marketing of games that are Eyefinity certified, people don't think single screen gaming and they don't think single screen DP to HDMI or DVI. If you need to use Eyefinity in your marketing of these adapters, it would be best if you have a footnote which ones that can or cannot be used when 2 displays are already connected. People get confused and I think its better to avoid this. Just look at the OP in this thread. :) :

Now, to the point - I was reading last night that ATI is trying to get a validated, passive single-link Dp to DVI unit onto their list of certified adapters. I see an Accell model listed on that page:

Thats how people see it in a lot of forums. A list of certified adapters for Eyefinity and I have yet to see a single person who only wants to connect one screen or two with an adapter. All of them wants to connect the third screen, which isn't possible with a passive dp->DVI "AMD Eyefinity Certified" dongle.

[iThinman]

Dave, I also thank you for your replies and monitoring of this thread. Also, congrats on the hockey win today.

I think there are a couple of things here that we can all agree on:

- The information is not as clear as it could be
- We all want the information to be as clear as possible
- Beer

So, in the spirit of compromise, customer satisfaction, support and beer, can we please get a footnote on the approved adapter page (http://support.amd.com/us/eyefinity/Pages/eyefinity-dongles.aspx) which states something to the effect of "For configurations of three monitors or more, please visit Display Connectivity "How to connect displays to an ATI Eyefinity capable graphics card" for additional important dongle information."

Sound reasonable?

[Dave Baumann]

An email, more or less to that effect, to the people that handle those pages was fired off several hours ago!

:P

Mmmmm..... beeeeer....

[Tamlin]

LOL! :bowdown :cheers

[iThinman]

Gracias Amigo! :)

Also, very worth while to point out to the masses reading this, that the chances of getting this type and level of participation from 'other' manufactures, display card or any other type, on a sunday no less is well...not likely.

While I don't appoligize for a bit of a harsh tone in my original post, I do understand fully and appreciate the above fact and it is not lost on me. It is not easy to get manufacture respresentation / participation on public boards and your willingness to wade through the sometimes seemingly endless 'bickering'. Your ability to wear the target at times, yet remain cool, calm and informative is applauded.

Thanks again Dave and have a great night.