Anyone else thinks TH2G Digital Edition is too expensive?

CyberCrist · Post by **CyberCrist** » 08 Dec 2008, 22:25

ok...back on topic...

When i bought my TH2GO I felt like I was kicked in the pants. I paid $300 for a device that did not work correctly. In fact their tech support couldn't (wouldn't?) even help me and directed me to this forum. Reading several of the posts and then figuring out what was wrong was like a revalation... cue lights... cue music... angelic voices... etc...

Now my TH2GO works fine. I play several games in widescreen (5040 x 1050), but not all games (because I get motion sickness!).

... at this point the $300 was definitely worth it. I went to a 500 person LAN recently and decided I couldn't just play games on a single screen. I wound up buying a 2nd seat and carting my whole triple screen setup to the LAN.

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 08 Dec 2008, 23:48

I paid $300 for a device that did not work correctly. In fact their tech support couldn't (wouldn't?) even help me and directed me to this forum. Reading several of the posts and then figuring out what was wrong was like a revalation... cue lights... cue music... angelic voices... etc...

Glad everything worked out for you (although motion sickness sucks :( ).

Mind revealing what the initial problems were? It might be helpful info for those considering a purchase or experiencing difficulties.

Angelic voices for sure! The TH2Go experience is so sweet that I'm quickly becoming a Surround Gaming elitist--I'm checking out TH support before any purchase. :D

Developers:
:WWTH2Go

CY:G · Post by **CY:G** » 10 Dec 2008, 05:02

To anyone saying its ATIs fault, IT ISNT, im playing games at 5760 * 1200 (yes you read that right) with SoftTH and an ATI 4870x2.

The problem lies in that TripleHead2Go works at 57Hz for the DVI inputs and outputs if im not wrong, i know that the DVI spec cant output 5040 * 1050 @ 60 hz (no bandwidth), but with some kind of conversion TH2Go should be able to do it, Matrox should release a a TH2Go that supports this and that would make it compatible with any card.

After all the 4870x2 is the most powerful card in the market and its a no brainier to use one for Triple Monitor gaming, im holding off buying Th2Go until A) Matrox fixes this issue or B) NVidia comes with a more powerful and cheaper GFX card than the competition.

Meanwhile i suggest you use SoftTH, most popular games run if you are patient enough to configure them right.

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 10 Dec 2008, 06:59

To anyone saying its ATIs fault, IT ISNT, im playing games at 5760 * 1200 (yes you read that right) with SoftTH and an ATI 4870x2.

The problem lies in that TripleHead2Go works at 57Hz for the DVI inputs and outputs if im not wrong, i know that the DVI spec cant output 5040 * 1050 @ 60 hz (no bandwidth), but with some kind of conversion TH2Go should be able to do it, Matrox should release a a TH2Go that supports this and that would make it compatible with any card.

After all the 4870x2 is the most powerful card in the market and its a no brainier to use one for Triple Monitor gaming, im holding off buying Th2Go until A) Matrox fixes this issue or B) NVidia comes with a more powerful and cheaper GFX card than the competition.

Meanwhile i suggest you use SoftTH, most popular games run if you are patient enough to configure them right.

1.) If the DVI spec can't output 5040 * 1050 @ 60hz (which I doubt myself) then Matrox can't do anything about that. They would need a higher bandwidth cable to get the data to the card (it would need to be DVI with current generation cards, so that's not happening) or a mechanism to get multiple cables running to it (defeating the whole purpose).

2.) SofTH is different than TH2Go. ATI drivers don't support the types of configurations needed to run the TH2Go properly (ex, 5040 * 1050 @ 57hz), and SofTH isn't actually doing that. Notice how the third monitor is configured through a different card, and the first and second monitors are configured separately. It's ATI. Or it's some sort of a conspiracy :wink:

Vroshnak · Post by **Vroshnak** » 10 Dec 2008, 14:37

After owning a TH2Go, then trying SoftTH, I'd say that it isn't worth buying a TH2Go.

Why pay money when you can get the same solution for free?

CY:G · Post by **CY:G** » 10 Dec 2008, 15:53

[quote]To anyone saying its ATIs fault, IT ISNT, im playing games at 5760 * 1200 (yes you read that right) with SoftTH and an ATI 4870x2.

The problem lies in that TripleHead2Go works at 57Hz for the DVI inputs and outputs if im not wrong, i know that the DVI spec cant output 5040 * 1050 @ 60 hz (no bandwidth), but with some kind of conversion TH2Go should be able to do it, Matrox should release a a TH2Go that supports this and that would make it compatible with any card.

After all the 4870x2 is the most powerful card in the market and its a no brainier to use one for Triple Monitor gaming, im holding off buying Th2Go until A) Matrox fixes this issue or B) NVidia comes with a more powerful and cheaper GFX card than the competition.

Meanwhile i suggest you use SoftTH, most popular games run if you are patient enough to configure them right.

1.) If the DVI spec can't output 5040 * 1050 @ 60hz (which I doubt myself) then Matrox can't do anything about that. They would need a higher bandwidth cable to get the data to the card (it would need to be DVI with current generation cards, so that's not happening) or a mechanism to get multiple cables running to it (defeating the whole purpose).

2.) SofTH is different than TH2Go. ATI drivers don't support the types of configurations needed to run the TH2Go properly (ex, 5040 * 1050 @ 57hz), and SofTH isn't actually doing that. Notice how the third monitor is configured through a different card, and the first and second monitors are configured separately. It's ATI. Or it's some sort of a conspiracy :wink:

Yeah but in the SofTH, the primary videocard is doing all the work at the entire resolution then it splits the image in 3 and sends each image to the appropriate DVI out, so in essence the third video card is just a "bridge" so to speak. The primary video card IS doing the processing of the entire 5040 * 1050 resolution.

Still you are right, recently ATI removed the option to span the image to more than one screen, with my x800 i remember being able to span the image to 3840 * 1024 into 2 monitors, but now its gone.

After owning a TH2Go, then trying SoftTH, I'd say that it isn't worth buying a TH2Go.

Why pay money when you can get the same solution for free?

Even though im really happy with SoftTH, i have to confess that it is very unstable and it yields worse framerates than Th2Go, but i also have to say that even if i owned a Th2Go i would end up going back to SofTH for some games as it allows me play at the native resolution of my 24" screens, 5760 * 1200.

Mergatroid · Post by **Mergatroid** » 10 Dec 2008, 17:22

Still you are right, recently ATI removed the option to span the image to more than one screen, with my x800 i remember being able to span the image to 3840 * 1024 into 2 monitors, but now its gone.

Did you upgrade from XP to Vista? Monitor spanning is no longer supported in Vista.

CY:G · Post by **CY:G** » 10 Dec 2008, 18:50

[quote]
Still you are right, recently ATI removed the option to span the image to more than one screen, with my x800 i remember being able to span the image to 3840 * 1024 into 2 monitors, but now its gone.

Did you upgrade from XP to Vista? Monitor spanning is no longer supported in Vista.

hmm yeah i did... so that explains it. THanks

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 10 Dec 2008, 19:36

Monitor spanning is no longer supported in Vista.

Wait, are you saying MS completely removed this feature from the OS?

Yet another fumble that entices me to upgrade...not.

CyberCrist · Post by **CyberCrist** » 10 Dec 2008, 19:47

[quote]I paid $300 for a device that did not work correctly. In fact their tech support couldn't (wouldn't?) even help me and directed me to this forum. Reading several of the posts and then figuring out what was wrong was like a revalation... cue lights... cue music... angelic voices... etc...

Glad everything worked out for you (although motion sickness sucks :( ).

Mind revealing what the initial problems were? It might be helpful info for those considering a purchase or experiencing difficulties.

Angelic voices for sure! The TH2Go experience is so sweet that I'm quickly becoming a Surround Gaming elitist--I'm checking out TH support before any purchase. :D

Developers:
:WWTH2Go

I won't go into details, but the original post is here:

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/node/9225

After figuring out what the problem was, I posted and it got made into a sticky which is here:

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14213

Post by **GeneralAdmission** » 10 Dec 2008, 20:28

Thanks CyberCrist. I completely missed those other threads, and I think that is plenty of information. ;)

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 10 Dec 2008, 22:01

Yeah but in the SofTH, the primary videocard is doing all the work at the entire resolution then it splits the image in 3 and sends each image to the appropriate DVI out, so in essence the third video card is just a "bridge" so to speak. The primary video card IS doing the processing of the entire 5040 * 1050 resolution.

Still you are right, recently ATI removed the option to span the image to more than one screen, with my x800 i remember being able to span the image to 3840 * 1024 into 2 monitors, but now its gone.

True, but the heart of the issue (not being able to output the required resolution to one physical output) is still on ATI's end.

mattsimis · Post by **mattsimis** » 10 Dec 2008, 23:42

After owning a TH2Go, then trying SoftTH, I'd say that it isn't worth buying a TH2Go.

Why pay money when you can get the same solution for free?

Because its not the same solution at all, its a different solution to the same problem (spanning monitors).

Compatibility (requires tailor made support per title, SLI/Crossfire), performance (saturates the PCIE bus) and image quality (16bit modes on Side Screens). I tried SoftTH for a week before deciding on TH2G. SoftTH is very clever (and impressive), but there are extreme limitations that software alone cannot completely overcome and the TH2G fills this void rather well.

I do however think TH2G is too expensive. I dont have their BOM cost so I cannot say they are "ripping us off", but I think its too expensive to gain any market traction, as per the original post the cost of extremely complex CPUs and even more complex GPUs has come down significantly. The TH2G is a collection of Image Processing DSPs, presumably running Matrox code. At the very least the hardware side should have come down in cost since the introduction and the coding cost is the salary of Matrox's employees (ie already paid).

A more consumer friendly price would be $149.99 and Im being generous to Matrox here. $199.99 puts it at upper enthusiast bracket while the $249+ pricing is pure niche and nothing more (think Ageia Physx PCI cards). IMO, its a gaming device, I seriously doubt its being used en masse for anything else and should be priced in line with other gaming peripherals, which arent exactly cheap, but cheaper.

howdid · Post by **howdid** » 11 Dec 2008, 12:23

First of all
from my point of view not supporting ATI cards is NOT ATi's fault since i can do it with SoftTH at 5040x1050
if the problem with ATI cards lies on the fact that TH2G run at 57hz
then it would still be Matroxs job to fix that, change that to 60hz or some other software/dirver update? Afterall, 57hz is not a standard.

mattsimis · Post by **mattsimis** » 11 Dec 2008, 14:48

First of all
from my point of view not supporting ATI cards is NOT ATi's fault since i can do it with SoftTH at 5040x1050
if the problem with ATI cards lies on the fact that TH2G run at 57hz
then it would still be Matroxs job to fix that, change that to 60hz or some other software/dirver update? Afterall, 57hz is not a standard.

Eh nope, and the point of the thread was on the cost of the device, not its compatibility.

Regardless, you can send a 60Hz 5040 signal to the TH2G just fine, Im doing it now. The box outputs 56ish Hz to the monitors, its more a monitor compatibility issue than a GFX card one. People over on the Entech forum confirmed there is an issue with ATI cards / drivers at these resolutions, irrelevant of frequency. I had a massive mail thread with Entech (Powerstrip) and tried many permutations of frequencies on a HD4870, it does display 5040 just in a massively corrupted fashion.

SoftTH uses a completely different method of rendering the wide image, its comparison is meaningless here.

Mergatroid · Post by **Mergatroid** » 11 Dec 2008, 17:11

[quote]Monitor spanning is no longer supported in Vista.

Wait, are you saying MS completely removed this feature from the OS?

Yet another fumble that entices me to upgrade...not.

Sort of. The drivers no longer have access to what they need to do it because of the new security architecture in Vista where drivers have strict limitations on how they interact with the system. It's not impossible, but nVidia and ATI would not get their Microsoft Vista certifications if they allowed it.

There are tutorials around that explain how to get the XP drivers to work on Vista. These allow spanning, but cause other problems.

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 12 Dec 2008, 01:23

First of all
from my point of view not supporting ATI cards is NOT ATi's fault since i can do it with SoftTH at 5040x1050
if the problem with ATI cards lies on the fact that TH2G run at 57hz
then it would still be Matroxs job to fix that, change that to 60hz or some other software/dirver update? Afterall, 57hz is not a standard.

It's not a frequency problem, it's a resolution problem. Theoretically if the TH2Go could accept 60hz, 120hz, or even 240hz, ATI's cards still wouldn't be able to use it because of the resolution.

And FYI, the fact that SofTH works and TH2Go doesn't is irrelevant. It's like saying why doesn't my DVD player play Blu-Rays, they both get outputted to the same TV?

geniv2 · Post by **geniv2** » 12 Dec 2008, 15:52

at $300+ I would say the TH2g is too expensive.

but since I got it for $230 it is the best gamming device I've ever spent money on.

I liked it so much I spend like $1250 to get 3x 24" monitors.

I tried SoftTH prior to getting the th2g and it just doens't compare.

Problems with SoftTH.
- significant performance hit in terms of FPS
- don't work with nearly as much games as th2g
- "screen update delay" the side screen updates in a 1/3 to 1/2 second delay after the primary screen. for racing game it is fine and not that noticable but for twitch FPS and general fps games.. it is HORRIBLE and make it kinda weird. like when you turn around or move in general the primary screen looks normal but the side screen perspective change is delayed. the way the eye/brain perceive it it's just wierd and unusable. (maybe it's me and my specific hardwware that have delays. )
- more of a pain to get working u have to use softTH custom setup files with each diffrferent game
- doesn't support my SLI
- only 16 bit on sidescreen.

In all honesty I would rather just spend the $ on a th2g. For those that are considering it. you can buy it from a place that accepts returns.

to see if you like it. but I guarantee once u get it and have it up and running you WILL NOT WANT TO GO BACK.

CyberCrist · Post by **CyberCrist** » 12 Dec 2008, 19:58

One more point, for those that are saying it's too expensive. The product is a "niche" product. For a product which is NOT required by the computer to run properly, I think that $300 is not bad. Let's look at water cooling. I just got a DangerDen setup. Not a out of the box setup, rather I built my own using some top of the line products and wound up spending around $500. Yes you can get the $200 WC setup from newegg, but I wouldn't trust some of those companies with my $2000 PC. Once again, it's a "niche" product, it's not required to make my PC run properly. Aftermarket items are always going to cost more then it would, if it was required. My house does not require solar power, but I can add it if I want the pony up the cash and then I can sleep better at night knowing I'm doing my part for the environment.

Can Matrox get more business by dropping the price to $199? Probably, yes.

Could they get even more business if they partnered with say ... Samsung and Ergotron... to offer a 3 monitor, single stand, Matrox setup for a discount? Maybe.

Could they get even more business by partnering with OEM's to sell the Matrox with a new system? Oh Heck Yes!!

While those questions above are relevant, they really only apply to the Matrox business strategy (and yes Matrox if you read this I, as the owner of NeoChron Consulting, am available for consultation) :)

The question you should ask yourself is... do I want immersive gaming? If you've spent $2000 on your uber gaming PC, $500 on watercooling, another $200 on peripherals (joystick, throttle, keyboard, mouse) and already have two montiors (most people I know do), then is it worth another $500 (Matrox + 3rd monitor) for the gaming experience? I answered yes to this question and I don't regret it in the least bit...

If you've spent $500 on a "great deal" from dell, have a single monitor and a 7 series Geforce card... is it worth it? Probably not.

Hope this helps your decision.

Mr Pibb · Post by **Mr Pibb** » 13 Dec 2008, 14:36

I'd like to mention another perspective regarding the price of TH2Go. Whilst price is always subjective to what one can afford, it's its value for money aspect that's really the relevant issue here, and frankly that's the only meaningful angle a debate on this subject can be centered around.

That aside, as just mentioned I'd like to bring up another perspective and this pespective is for those of us that already own analouge TH2Go equipment. In my case I have already shelled out a great deal of money buying an analogue TH2Go, 3x19" monitors and a ergotron triple monitor stand. From memory that set me back around $2500 at the time. Now, with the release of the new digital TH2Go, I'm in for spending another fortune to upgrade. This essentially means it's costing me twice as much as a new user.

To this end I'm a bit miffed that Matrox haven't supported 2x 5:4 + 1 x widescreen capability with the digital TH2Go. For me upgrading to the digital version wouldn't be a question if all I had to do was buy 1 widescreen monitor and a new digital TH2Go. I could then retain 2 of my existing 19" 5:4 screens and use my ergotron stand. I believe the stand won't fit 3 x widescreens. I could always have an adaptor made I guess, but none the less why have they gone from one extreme to the other and left us loyal existing customers out in the cold to some degree?

In addition to upgrading everything, to run 3 x widescreen it would essentially also mean I've got to fork out for a new GPU to run the greater resolutions. My TH2Go runs pretty damned well with a single 8800GTS and upgrading the center monitor to widescreen would probably still be within the capabilities of my existing GPU. But as it stands, I'm realistically forced to upgrade GPU as well. By offering some flexibilty, Matrox could have made the upgrade from analogue to digital a progressive exercise, and thus within the realms of reasonable cost spread out over a period of time, and therefore less painful.

Whilst I appreciate that no one's holding a gun to my head and making me upgrade, it would have been nice to be able to do it bit by bit rather than having to make redundant some perfectly good very expensive equipement and spending a whole lot of cash in one hit.

Thanks for recognising and rewarding your existing customers Matrox.

That's my 10 cents worth...

Widescreen Gaming Forum