Setting Correct FOV for 16:9 Gaming

X-ray Doc · Post by **X-ray Doc** » 22 Nov 2004, 23:57

Patience grasshopper. Your answer will be coming. But I still want you to check something.

1. Accurately measure the height and width of your Samsung monitor screen. Is that ratio really 1.25, or 1.33?

2. If the centered output is doing what you say it does, you should see small black bands on all four sides when you choose 1024 x 768 in game, but keep your monitor resolution set on 1280 x 1024. Is this what happens?

mike_j_johnson · Post by **mike_j_johnson** » 23 Nov 2004, 02:03

1. I will measure when I get home from work. :)

2. That is exactly what happens, and the way I like it. :D

mike_j_johnson · Post by **mike_j_johnson** » 23 Nov 2004, 04:06

13 5/16 wide x 10 11/16 tall (viewable screen)

=

13.3125 wide x 10.6875 tall

so...

13.3125 / 10.6875 = 1.2456140350877192982456140350877

~1.25 = 5:4 aspect ratio :wink:

X-ray Doc · Post by **X-ray Doc** » 23 Nov 2004, 05:58

Very interesting! Thanks for doing that measurement. The FOV you want to use to fit your game exactly to a 5:4 aspect ratio is 86.304779 degrees. This assumes that the default FOV of your game for a 4:3 aspect ratio is 90 degrees. It also assumes that you will actually display the game at 1280 x 1240 (or other 5:4 resolution.) If you actually display the game at say 1024 x 768, then stick with the FOV of 90.

I don't have time right now to describe the calculation. But I will try to explain it later.

mike_j_johnson · Post by **mike_j_johnson** » 23 Nov 2004, 06:23

I found this on another thread. Thanks again for your help!

FOV2 = 2 * inv_tan [ ( W2 / W1 ) * tan ( FOV1 / 2 ) ]

where W2 and W1 are screen widths for equal screen height.

So if you've got a game with FOV of 80 in 4:3 and you want to game on 5:4;
4:3=16:12, 5:4=15:12, so W1=16 and W2=15 and FOV1=80
FOV2=2*inv_tan[(15/16)*tan(80/2)]=76.3811378...

Their example uses Painkiller with default FOV of 95 going from 4:3 to 16:9;
4:3=12:9, W1=12 and W2=16 and FOV1=95
FOV2=2*inv_tan[(16/12)*tan(95/2)]=111.0025355...

Your need is to go from 4:3 to 5:4 with default FOV of 90;
W1=15 and W2=16 (see first example) and FOV1=90
FOV2=2*inv_tan[(15/16)*tan(90/2)]=86.3047794...

X-ray Doc · Post by **X-ray Doc** » 23 Nov 2004, 06:51

That's exactly right! Glad you found that thread. That saved me some trouble. :)

P.S. I'm glad my number matches yours.
P.S.S. What's the link? I'm glad others are using exact FOV determinations.

mike_j_johnson · Post by **mike_j_johnson** » 23 Nov 2004, 07:37

http://www.hardforum.com/

Under the Display section.

I posted my question and someone answered pretty quickly.

Thanks for all your help.

mike_j_johnson · Post by **mike_j_johnson** » 24 Nov 2004, 08:16

This might be a little off topic, but do you guys know if there is any DVD software players out there that display DVD movies with an exact 1:1 pixel ratio?

For instance, I run my monitor with 1280x1024 native resolution. If I play a DVD using nVDVD, it shows black bars on the top and bottom, but the movie fills the screen horizontally. I know darn well that DVD movies are not encoded with 1280 lines of horizontal resolution. I think most are like 720x480 or something.

Anyways, I want to see the movie with exact resolution (just like games display when using a lower resolution and the nVIDIA centered output setting).

Any thoughts?

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 24 Nov 2004, 14:17

DVD players...

Surely the default window size is the actual size of the DVD video stream? When I open WinDVD, the window resizes based on whether it's 16:9 or 4:3 ratio... and it's pretty small on the screen. Given that my screen is 1680x1050, I assume that that is the right size.

Not sure, though.

Anyone have any other thoughts? :)

mike_j_johnson · Post by **mike_j_johnson** » 24 Nov 2004, 19:45

Yeah I am pretty sure the aspect ratio is preserved, but I think the software scales the image (makes it larger) so it uses your whole screen.

Again I believe most DVDs are currently a maximum of 720x480 resolution. If that is the case, then a movie displaying on a native 1680x1050 display *should* appear as a smaller rectangular image at the center of the screen with black bars on the top, bottom, and left/right sides. This isnt the case though...every software DVD player I have seen actually uses the whole horizontal screen and just puts black bars on the top and bottom.

My goal is to eliminate any sort of scaling, and achieve 1:1 pixel ratio (as this should theoretically be the best image possible).

EDIT: I think I have proven my theory. I got World of Warcraft Collectors Edition. It comes with a DVD that includes the opening cinema movie. Playing the DVD to watch the movie with nVDVD shows the movie like any other DVD movie (fills the screen except black bars at top and bottom). Then I watched the movie via the actual game itself. It displays the movie with black bars on the top/bottom AND the sides! Again, I use 1280x1024 native with centered mode turned on.

X-ray Doc · Post by **X-ray Doc** » 24 Nov 2004, 20:16

You know, I'm not certain about that setting in a DVD software player. I think there is usually a "full screen" option in the player software, which is usually checked. Perhaps if that wasn't checked it might display the actual DVD pixels in the center of your screen.

My DLP projector has a native resolution of 1280 x 720. The projector has a "pixel to pixel" option. If I select that setting, a DVD movie only uses the center of the screen with black bars on all sides.

mike_j_johnson · Post by **mike_j_johnson** » 24 Nov 2004, 23:04

I just did a quick Google search and found out that "Zoom Player Professional v 4.03" supports 1:1 pixel ratio via a config setting.

I am not really familiar with this player and not sure if I want to purchase it.

I know some of the big players are WinDVD and PowerDVD, but not sure yet if they support 1:1.

X-ray Doc · Post by **X-ray Doc** » 24 Nov 2004, 23:10

Don't worry about Zoom Player or Theater Tek. They are actually two of the favorite software DVD players for people who are into home theater PCs. I spend a lot of time at the following website. There is lots of experience there with both Zoom Player and Theater Tek.

http://htpcnews.com/main.php

Torquemada · Post by **Torquemada** » 31 Jan 2005, 13:16

Hi, has anyone tried running any of the Microsoft flight sims in wide screen? I'm assuming that as they are primarily in a cockpit you would have to run the game in a window on the desktop?

Cheers

FS2004 runs great at 1650*1050. I also tried at 1440 * 900 on another laptop and I must say It appeared to me a bit streched, but ok. Tweaking the visuals and running at 1650 and at average 25fps looks absolutely outstanding.

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 03 Jan 2006, 10:59

Actually, it is proportional....Now, if default FOV of the game is 90 degrees at 4:3 aspect ratio,
correct FOV for 16:9 aspect ratio would be 106.2602047 degrees.

Great thread, just what I was looking for, but the formula shown makes no sense to me. If this is a proportional thing, and close enough will suffice, can I just use a multiplier? 1.18 x 90 is 106.2, so if in each case the games I'm playing are using 1280x720 on my TX-R2678WH, can I multiply the game's default 4:3 FOV by 1.18?

So far I've played Far Cry, Painkiller, and MOH Pacific Assault on this TV, and Pacific Assault is the worst for losing HUD info. They all seem to lose about the same amount of picture though.

I was able to drop the V & H amp in th TV's service menu by 5 digits each, but it didn't help much on the game HUDs.

I tried changing the FOV in the Painkiller config file to 112 (using the 1.18 multiplier), but am still missing parts of the HUD. Do I need to use a console command? If so, what is it, and can I just add it to the launch icon's target line?

So far I've read that Far Cry's FOV command is FOV Angle (tweakguides.com). I can't find the command for MOH Pac Assault though.

I see here some of you are talking about eye to screen distance. Is that an adustment that has to be made along with FOV, or just an example for making sense out of the dev's default FOV settings?

Does anyone know the default FOV in Far Cry?

X-ray Doc · Post by **X-ray Doc** » 03 Jan 2006, 19:03

If this is a proportional thing, and close enough will suffice, can I just use a multiplier?

Sure, ultimately if you knew the correct answer for FOV2 and you know your starting FOV1, then there has to exist a simple muliplier (namely FOV2/FOV1) that you could simply multiply FOV1 by to get FOV2. Unfortunately, the exact equation is not simple and that multiplier depends on both the starting FOV1, the starting aspect ratio (part of W1) and the desired ending aspect ratio (part of W2). In other words, there is no single multiplier that would work universally going from a 4:3 aspect ratio to say a 16:9 aspect ratio. Strange as it seems, the starting FOV1 also affects the needed multiplier.

Take a look at this thread I wrote awhile ago. It goes through some examples that may help.

http://htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8444

Now, could someone make this easier for everyone? I suppose. Someone could go through the calculations for many different starting FOVs, the most common starting aspect ratio of 4:3 and the most common ending aspect ratios of 16:9 or 16:10 and then put these in a table. Or better yet, someone with programming skills could create a web application that would allow you to simply input the needed variables and get the immediate answer for FOV2. But then, that scientific calculator would continue to collect dust and have no meaning in life. :wink:

So far I've played Far Cry, Painkiller, and MOH Pacific Assault on this TV, and Pacific Assault is the worst for losing HUD info.

For the most part, if you're doing things correctly, you shouldn't lose any HUD information. Now I know this isn't true for a game like TRON 2.0 which is why I don't try to play it in a widescreen ratio. But for games like Painkiller, UT2004, COD Single Player, Half-life 2, or Doom 3, you can see the entire HUD. The HUD may be stretched (round radar maps look oval), but you're not missing parts of the HUD and the game world is absolutely not stretched.

May I make two suggestions. First, make sure that you are seeing the entire Windows desktop at 1280 x 720 on your TV. You must see the taskbar and all icons. If not, you have some overscan issues and first need to correct that. You might need to create a custom resolution with PowerStrip or you might be able to adjust the desktop size using the advanced display controls from nVidia or ATI. If you're not seeing the entire desktop, then you also won't see the entire HUD in game at 1280 x 720. Second, as a test, try this for Painkiller. Painkiller modification is easy and works great at 16:9 and 1280 x 720. I just want to be sure you've done it correctly.

Open the config.ini file using WordPad. The default file location is here: C:Program FilesDreamCatcherPainkillerBin. Change "Cfg.FOV = 95" to "Cfg.FOV = 111.002536". Click File>Save. Close WordPad. Start Painkiller. If you already have 1280 x 720 available as an option for your desktop (i.e. it is a valid resolution choice for your video card) then 1280 x 720 should be a resolution choice in game for Painkiller. Choose that and frag away! (Other games, such as UT2004 or Doom 3 require .cfg or .ini file entries for your desired resolution, but not Painkiller.)

X-ray Doc · Post by **X-ray Doc** » 03 Jan 2006, 20:25

I just remembered one other resource that you might try. A friend of mine, "Drakino", has actually written a program that will help set the necessary .cfg or .ini changes automatically for widescreen gaming. I haven't personally used it, but I saw Drakino use it at QuakeCon and it was pretty cool. Now Drakino games on a 16:10 aspect ratio monitor, but I believe his program also covers a 16:9 ratio. I know it doesn't work with all games yet, but it works with quite a few. I don't think he would mind if I provided this link. Use at your own risk of course. 8)

http://grs.miniinfo.net/

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 03 Jan 2006, 23:20

Thanks Doc, but like I said above, I already tried setting the Painkiller cfg.FOV from 95 to 112, and was still missing part of the HUD. Does it have to be that exact number you mentioned to work?

I also already adjusted for overscan as best I could, dropping the V & H amp 5 digits each. Any more than that starts showing edge distortion from the picture shrinking.

One of the main problems I've having is trying to find exactly how to change the FOV for each game without entering a console command each time. Some games are hard to even find how to change the FOV at all, like Pac Assault.

I think I'll break down and try your friend's handy dandy tool. The worst that could happen is I might have to reinstall a game or two.

BTW, just checked my desktop on the TV, and it's all there except a smidge of the left edge, but not enough to lose any part of the icons. It's pushed in to the left edge of the Wndows flag on the Start tab.

This would appear to indicate a bad H Shift setting, but I left that set to 19, which matches what one person on the AVS forum said was their factory setting on the same exact set. In tweaking the H Shift a bit, I found it seemed already centered.

X-ray Doc · Post by **X-ray Doc** » 04 Jan 2006, 00:09

What about seeing your entire desktop at 1280 x 720? That is critically important. Changing the FOV of a game, especially Painkiller, doesn't cause you to lose part of your HUD. What is probably happening is that your TV isn't showing the full 1280 x 720 pixels. I'll bet there is a margin on all sides that is missing. Perhaps you are only seeing something like 1200 x 675 pixels. Let me know if I'm wrong, but I think you need to completely correct overscan issues before any of your games will display accurately.

Now I know nothing about trying to correct overscan by changing V & H amplitude. That sounds like overriding your TV defaults and may not be the best method. I'm pretty sure that the latest video card drivers from nVidia and ATI have advanced settings where you can "drag" display borders or otherwise adjust for the overscan that is built into your HDTV. (You are using an HDTV I assume.) They may only work for component video connections, but I'm not sure about that. Those controls may also support VGA or DVI hookups. I personally haven't ever needed to deal with overscan issues. I game on a 1280 x 720 DLP projector and it projects exactly that resolution. There is no overscan with projectors.

Anyway, that is the method I would try first to compensate for (not eliminate) the overscan that is built into your TV. If those controls don't work, then I would look into adding a "custom resolution within a resolution" using PowerStrip. I can't walk you through that, but the idea is that you add the resolution that your HDTV actually displays (perhaps 1200 x 675) within a standard timing for 1280 x 720. That way your video card will only send desktop data in the 1200 x 675 size to your TV and you should see everything. Good luck. I hope this helps. There are probably other forum members that know more about eliminating overscan than me. I'm pretty sure that your problems are not related to changing the FOV in any of your games however. Changing the FOV changes the amount of the 3D game world that you see. The HUD looks the same. What changes the look of the HUD is the non 4:3 aspect resolution that you use. For many games the HUD is an overlay and thus gets distorted when you make it wider than it was drawn originally. Parts only disappear when you're missing pixels on your display device. Test this yourself. Play Painkiller with an FOV of 111, but at a resolution of 800 x 600. You should see the full HUD with black borders on all sides. The HUD will not be distorted in any way. The 16:9 3D world will appear squished into the 4:3 shape, i.e. monsters etc. should appear skinnier than normal. 8)

LuckMC11 · Post by **LuckMC11** » 04 Jan 2006, 02:55

how would one go about changinng the FOV??

Widescreen Gaming Forum