GTA IV and more and more

Post by **Abram** » 25 Jan 2009, 16:42

Eh, I'm just doing it to get 100%. I eventually do it with every GTA i play. But I think IV will be the easiest. Getting a Gold in all the driving tests in San Andreas is a real bitch. The ambulance missions completion is hard, too.

But in the next couple weeks, I'll be mostly done with IV and starting pining for GTA V. :(

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 26 Jan 2009, 00:59

To me, achievements are just yet another annoying reminder that GfW titles cater primarily to console players. I feel it's an insult to the PC players that are supposedly served by the GfW mission statement when all they get out of 100% completion is 100% completion. What's wrong with some decent unlocks that are actually useful like games used to have? This achievement gimmick is a big part of what's ruined modern PC games IMO.

That being said, I feel even console players are lead down the BS path when you consider the achievement points they get toward purchasing future titles serves the publishers and developers far more than the players. Truth is you can get much better deals on game prices just surfing the net and/or waiting until prices drop, which is often about the time the games have the patch support they need if they're patched at all.

They clearly came up with this achievement idea just to keep console players pre-ordering their games at full price.

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 26 Jan 2009, 01:43

To me, achievements are just yet another annoying reminder that GfW titles cater primarily to console players. I feel it's an insult to the PC players that are supposedly served by the GfW mission statement when all they get out of 100% completion is 100% completion. What's wrong with some decent unlocks that are actually useful likes games used to have? This achievement gimmick is a big part of what's ruined modern PC games IMO.

That being said, I feel even console players are lead down the BS path when you consider the achievement points they get toward purchasing future titles serves the publishers and developers far more than the players. Truth is you can get much better deals on game prices just surfing the net and/or waiting until prices drop, which is often about the time the games have the patch support they need if they're patched at all.

They clearly came up with this achievement idea just to keep console players pre-ordering their games at full price.

Wait... What? You can buy stuff with your gamerscore points?!?!?!

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 26 Jan 2009, 04:04

Wait... What? You can buy stuff with your gamerscore points?!?!?!

...no, you can't.

I really don't see what you're talking about Frag Maniac...

infernus · Post by **infernus** » 26 Jan 2009, 16:30

Achievements and Gamerscore are not used to purchase anything. They are for your own enjoyment and bragging if you feel you want to go about it; if you don't like it, you can choose to just play it normally like any other console or PC game back in the day. I've taken a liking to it, since it's like an extra set of goals for the game.

mengzor · Post by **mengzor** » 26 Jan 2009, 18:07

I've taken a liking to it, since it's like an extra set of goals for the game.

^This.

tbh , i wouldnt even consider doing most of the extra stuff in a game otherwise. Additional goals and a little incentive pays off in the long run as it ends up giving the game extra replayability.
Until you get max points that is (1k/1k) , then you feel like the game has nothing else to offer

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 26 Jan 2009, 21:03

OK, I think I've got the correct info now, and yes, I did not state it accurately, however not entirely wrong. I was confusing the Achievement Points with Microsoft Points, which can be used to buy games. However, the Achievement Points can win you prizes if you find a contest that honors them to do so, the better ones being games if I'm not mistaken. Just one look at the types of staples like T-Shirts they use for prizes shows it's something more of a self serving advertising hook than something of substance for the player.

I stand by what I said as far as the intention of commenting on this. The Achievement Point system is clearly a marketing gimmick, nothing more, nothing less. I have read they do not have these contests as much as they used to. Well, IMO that says they are even more greedy about it now than they were when first implementing it. I'm sure they knew all along that once they got console players bragging about Achievment Points on their Blogesque Gamercard they wouldn't have to feed the frenzy with contests anymore.

I maintain, if they wanted to make it a better experience for players vs themselves, they would make the points count toward unlockables IN the game, not some kind of half ass raffle that only serves a small percentage of console players lucky enough to win something. My point was not just the greed of getting orders via gimmicks though. This is something that serves primarily the console crowd and is a slap in the face to the PC community that is more insulted than rewarded by these crappy GfW ports.

Games for Windows and MS' mission statement are about as phony as the PC Gamers Alliance. MS aren't quite as backstabbing toward PC gamers as Epic Games, another main member of the so called PC Gamers Alliance, but they are not far off.

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 26 Jan 2009, 22:48

OK, I think I've got the correct info now, and yes, I did not state it accurately, however not entirely wrong. I was confusing the Achievement Points with Microsoft Points, which can be used to buy games. However, the Achievement Points can win you prizes if you find a contest that honors them to do so, the better ones being games if I'm not mistaken. Just one look at the types of staples like T-Shirts they use for prizes shows it's something more of a self serving advertising hook than something of substance for the player.

I stand by what I said as far as the intention of commenting on this. The Achievement Point system is clearly a marketing gimmick, nothing more, nothing less. I have read they do not have these contests as much as they used to. Well, IMO that says they are even more greedy about it now than they were when first implementing it. I'm sure they knew all along that once they got console players bragging about Achievment Points on their Blogesque Gamercard they wouldn't have to feed the frenzy with contests anymore.

I maintain, if they wanted to make it a better experience for players vs themselves, they would make the points count toward unlockables IN the game, not some kind of half ass raffle that only serves a small percentage of console players lucky enough to win something. My point was not just the greed of getting orders via gimmicks though. This is something that serves primarily the console crowd and is a slap in the face to the PC community that is more insulted than rewarded by these crappy GfW ports.

Games for Windows and MS' mission statement are about as phony as the PC Gamers Alliance. MS aren't quite as backstabbing toward PC gamers as Epic Games, another main member of the so called PC Gamers Alliance, but they are not far off.

Ironically enough, the marketing gimmick of Achievement points is actually something the user base is look for now, for both bragging rights and a definitive "I beat it" signal from their games.

If you want more proof look at the PS3 fanbase calling for trophies.

Are you sure about the achievement point raffle? I've heard of contests (set up by players, no less) for who can get a certain number of achievement points in a set time period, but never any sort of "raffle" (by Microsoft or otherwise).

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 27 Jan 2009, 01:24

Ironically enough, the marketing gimmick of Achievement points is actually something the user base is look for now, for both bragging rights and a definitive "I beat it" signal from their games.

If you want more proof look at the PS3 fanbase calling for trophies.

Are you sure about the achievement point raffle? I've heard of contests (set up by players, no less) for who can get a certain number of achievement points in a set time period, but never any sort of "raffle" (by Microsoft or otherwise).

Proof? Did I not say that this is probably what they had planned all along, players becoming used to this gimmick and in fact addicted to it?

"I'm sure they knew all along that once they got console players bragging about Achievment Points on their Blogesque Gamercard they wouldn't have to feed the frenzy with contests anymore."

I don't know exactly how the contests are/were conducted, and I don't really care. I used the word raffle as a guess. The point is, this is more of a profit making gimmick than achievement thing. I could show you links of people discussing such contests if you wish, but you could easily find them yourself with a bit of Googling.

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 27 Jan 2009, 01:30

Proof? Did I not say that this is probably what they had planned all along, players becoming used to this gimmick and in fact addicted to it?

"I'm sure they knew all along that once they got console players bragging about Achievment Points on their Blogesque Gamercard they wouldn't have to feed the frenzy with contests anymore."

I don't know exactly how the contests are/were conducted, and I don't really care. I used the word raffle as a guess. The point is, this is more of a profit making gimmick than achievement thing. I could show you links of people discussing such contests if you wish, but you could easily find them yourself with a bit of Googling.

...I'll take your word for it.

Although one could argue that absolutely everything is done for profiteering, and honestly your opinion comes off as a bit alarmist...

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 27 Jan 2009, 01:59

Although one could argue that absolutely everything is done for profiteering, and honestly your opinion comes off as a bit alarmist...

Oh come now, don't paint me as a Susan Powder type stop the insanity person just because I point out the sad truth about the psychology of advertising and the adverse effect it's success has on the quality of products.

The grim reality is, most consumers can be lead down just about any path a clever manufacturer wants to take them and start craving things that are in fact quite trendy and shallow. Nothing I've said is untrue really, it's just that most with such addictions don't care to hear it.

Achievement Points are a bit like red push in TVs. It's not there to enhance your viewing experience, just lure consumers in psychologically. Many consumers have recently become aware of what red push is and seek to remove it or buy sets that have little to none. I can only hope gamers will eventually get a clue about AP too, but I'm not going to go all Susan on them trying to convince them to. After all, she's just another of many using gimmicks to profit. :wink:

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 27 Jan 2009, 02:35

Oh come now, don't paint me as a Susan Powder type stop the insanity person just because I point out the sad truth about the psychology of advertising and the adverse effect it's success has on the quality of products.

The grim reality is, most consumers can be lead down just about any path a clever manufacturer wants to take them and start craving things that are in fact quite trendy and shallow. Nothing I've said is untrue really, it's just that most with such addictions don't care to hear it.

Achievement Points are a bit like red push in TVs. It's not there to enhance your viewing experience, just lure consumers in psychologically. Many consumers have recently become aware of what red push is and seek to remove it or buy sets that have little to none. I can only hope gamers will eventually get a clue about AP too, but I'm not going to go all Susan on them trying to convince them to. After all, she's just another of many using gimmicks to profit. :wink:

...I see what you're saying and empathize with it, I'm just apparently missing what your point is...just that Achievements (like nearly half of the things they cram into modern electronics) are a gimmick?

To me they only negatively impact multiplayer if at all, and to that extent you're playing with the wrong community anyways...

DaFox · Post by **DaFox** » 27 Jan 2009, 02:50

Is it wrong to actively enjoy a gimmick? I'm twice as likely to buy a steam game with achievements simply to one up my friend in the number of achievements that i have obtained.

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 27 Jan 2009, 03:40

Where's that face palm pic of Cpt. Picard I keep seeing on forums when I need it? That last comment kinda reaffirms my point really. It used to be real skill like mp rankings that were bragged about. Now devs have players saying "Woot, I found and killed all 200 pigeons!" Is that a skill to brag about, or an indication someone has way too much time on their hands? I tend to think the latter, esp when it only unlocks something you can spawn with a phone call, save for the rocket ammo, which isn't needed that much in the game anyway.

Anyways to answer, be more to the point, and not ignore the responses, no, it is definitely NOT wrong to enjoy a gimmick. It is annoying IMO however for them to make gimmicks that serve them more than us, functionally I mean. Unless of course most video game players are actually satisfied bragging about such mundane things that anyone can do if they plod through it long enough.

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 27 Jan 2009, 03:42

Where's that face palm pic of Cpt. Picard I keep seeing on forums when I need it? That last comment kinda reaffirms my point really. It used to be real skill like mp rankings that were bragged about. Now devs have players saying "Woot, I found and killed all 200 pigeons!" Is that a skill to brag about, or an indication someone has way too much time on their hands? I tend to think the latter, esp when it only unlocks something you can spawn with a phone call, save for the rocket ammo, which isn't needed that much in the game anyway.

What I find funny about that quote is that multiplayer leader boards are generally weighted by time played, and not by skill level.

So we've gone from "look at me I have hours to waste on this video game" to "look at me I have hours to waste on this video game and I got a message telling me so?"

Frag Maniac · Post by **Frag Maniac** » 27 Jan 2009, 03:47

Not when I was playing mp, it was all about kill count back then and by God you had to be good to be consistently at or near the top. Is it really surprising even mp rankings have become watered down with such ridiculous sp bragging rights these Achievement Points involve? What they've done is slowly replace real goals with superficial ones.

It's like shopping, put up enough "convenience" stores and eventually they will be swarming with consumers willing to dole out a couple bucks for a cheeseburger dog that looks like a dried up turd just because it's across the street. What I mean is if you make something easy enough, lots will start doing it and soon it becomes trend.

infernus · Post by **infernus** » 27 Jan 2009, 03:56

Take Halo 3 or CoD4 for example, the latter of which was done perfectly (SP achievements only). There are tons of people who still play that for "skill" and leaderboards (not sure there is anything like that on Halo 3, but they have all sorts of stats on bungie.net). People will probably play the game like they would've even without achievements. It only adds incentive imo. In GTAIV for example, I might not have even tried to do most of the things I did (like escape max wanted) if it weren't for them.

I'm not gonna add to that anymore, except that I wanna see the new DLC soon. D:

Dem Pyros · Post by **Dem Pyros** » 27 Jan 2009, 04:18

Take Halo 3 or CoD4 for example, the latter of which was done perfectly (SP achievements only). There are tons of people who still play that for "skill" and leaderboards (not sure there is anything like that on Halo 3, but they have all sorts of stats on bungie.net). People will probably play the game like they would've even without achievements. It only adds incentive imo. In GTAIV for example, I might not have even tried to do most of the things I did (like escape max wanted) if it weren't for them.

I'm not gonna add to that anymore, except that I wanna see the new DLC soon. D:

Ah, good GTA IV memories... :D

I agree that CoD4 did the achievements right, despite the fact that the whole game overall (imo) was not all that great...

Post by **MobsterOO7** » 01 Feb 2009, 21:15

This is getting better and better. I cannot play the game online because I am unable to sign in to windows live application! I checked gfwl forum and turns out I am not alone, but there is no solution. I did forward or open the necessary ports in my firewall and router, and I am running out of ideas. Anybody here has a similar problem? I have got 5 more days to return the game to the store, and it looks like I will finally take advantage of this option.

I am having this same problem. I can't sign on to GFWL. I had to create an offline account so I could save the game. I haven't even tried to play mutliplayer yet.

: (

Anybody hear of a fix?

Jupix · Post by **Jupix** » 02 Feb 2009, 11:11

Funny how the latest patch made GTA IV completely unplayable for me.

After playing for an hour or so it starts to get a bit jerky, quickly worsens and after a while freezes completely, taking XP down with it.

Thx, but I'm not playing a game that regularly forces me to reboot my OS.

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