Modern WarFAIL 2

[Ryom]

I have Business Class cable and it's barely acceptable for hosting a game. It's really all about the ping... You've got dedicated servers sitting right on top of major internet backbone hubs in New York and Texas that are going to blow away any home connection for ping times. They have 1 hop to reach the cloud instead of the typical 5-15 hops just to get out of your ISP's network.

What a RIP, the game makers for consoles won't even host their own servers even with the larger sales base that consoles have! And it isn't like they can't offer dedicated server software for console games either... they just choose not to!

Heavy weapons guy says: "It is sad day!"

[GeneralAdmission]

I guess I'm in a better hosting position than most. I consistently get 256k upload speeds with occasional bursts in the 300-500 range. Haven't noticed any throttling by my ISP (Comcast), and I've run UT and L4D servers that perform well according to my local buddies.

I must say that the recent industry developments towards P2P seem like a significant step backwards. P2P MP simply cannot contest the power/performance/features of dedicated servers. Sure, matchmaking is 'easy' and quick, but there is no reason it requires abandoning DS tech altogether. For IW, they simply don't want MWF2 to have dedis, and I'm still wondering what the undisclosed reasons are for this change.

[DaFox]

I guess I'm in a better hosting position than most. I consistently get 256k upload speeds with occasional bursts in the 300-500 range. Haven't noticed any throttling by my ISP (Comcast), and I've run UT and L4D servers that perform well according to my local buddies.

I must say that the recent industry developments towards P2P seem like a significant step backwards. P2P MP simply cannot contest the power/performance/features of dedicated servers. Sure, matchmaking is 'easy' and quick, but there is no reason it requires abandoning DS tech altogether. For IW, they simply don't want MWF2 to have dedis, and I'm still wondering what the undisclosed reasons are for this change.

256kb or kB? If its bytes thats pretty nice for a non-Fios upload speed. The problem as Ryom put it is that its not so much the speed of the connection but rather the quality. Your local buddies don't have to go through nearly as many hops to get to you, Hosting for people all across the continent well thats another story.

But yes as you said, P2P isn't bad, it's just not as good as the next thing. Which makes it kind of foolish.

[Paradigm Shifter]

But yes as you said, P2P isn't bad, it's just not as good as the previous thing. Which makes it kind of foolish.

Fixed that. 8)

When something new is worse than the thing it replaces, that's known as bloody stupid. ;)

[Abram]

http://bashandslash.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=757&Itemid=111

Almost gets me all -weepy-eyed. *sniff*

[GeneralAdmission]

256kb or kB?

Kilobytes, for sure. 8)

Your local buddies don't have to go through nearly as many hops to get to you, Hosting for people all across the continent well thats another story.

Absolutely, though I'd like to have someone far away connect sometime and see how the performance fairs for them.

Also, I think I neglected to mention that I run dedicated servers. :D

When something new is worse than the thing it replaces, that's known as bloody stupid.

+1 ^^This^^

http://bashandslash.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=757&Itemid=111
Almost gets me all -weepy-eyed. *sniff*

Terrific vid. I wonder what Grant thinks of all this.

Here's one cut from the Bash podcast of the guys discussing MW2 before Bowling joined the show. Great snapshot of the community's expectations.
http://generaladmission.home.comcast.net/files/Track03.mp3 (1:20min, 650KB)

[g00seberry]

http://www.tek-9.org/news/mw2_developer_chat_reveals_more_bad_news-2115.html

As if it wasn't bad enough.

I love this ...

Ignoring IW.net, is the PC version a direct port of the console version?
Mackey-IW: No, PC has custom stuff like mouse control, text chat in game, and graphics settings.

WOW! We can like, control stuff, with a MOUSE! Fuck, how's that even gonna work!? And we can sort of hit keys on our keyboard for TEXT CHAT. AND we can change some graphic settings too! Holy christ this is too much, the wise men didn't even bring Jesus himself shit this good! I gotta lie down.

[StingingVelvet]

Watch it have resolution and that's it. I will laugh my butt off...

What bothers me most about all this, not being a multiplayer guy, is the fact they are removing features from the game, in the name of making all platforms the same, and then charging more money. More... for less.

Also, making "all platforms the same" doesn't make sense, because all platforms are NOT the same. The PS3 has a dedicated HDD and can support mouse and keyboard, so the game should take advantage of that. The PC can support enhanced graphics, more options for things like FOV, dedicated servers and higher player counts, so the game should take advantage of that.

Making the game "the same on all platforms" actually means taking things away from some platforms, rather than adding things to all platforms.

[DaFox]

http://www.tek-9.org/news/mw2_developer_chat_reveals_more_bad_news-2115.html

Oh wow...

In a community chat session with Mackey McCandlish, Ryan Lastimosa and Vince Zampella of Infinity Ward it has become apparant that there will be no console in Modern Warfare 2, stating "we would like you to play the game the way we designed and balanced it" when asked about the possibility to change the fov, remove perks and graphical debris and tweak the weapons for further balance.

Yay for hardcoding everything then... You can save some memory usage by doing that. You know like how our PC's are limited to 256 and 512MB of ram hey? yeah.

The answer to a question regarding their ping during IW.net testing, "I've been playing mainly with around 100ms ping and it was great (Mackey-IW)", does not sound too promising.

LOLOLLOLOL

Well as if there wasn't enough of a reason for the hardcore to play at all. Professional players will hault a match and switch servers if they are getting over 60 ping. Funny how we are going backwards here, arn't we supposed to be bringing lower ping solutions to the table? I usually play on Chicago servers because my ISP has the best routing there (even though Seattle is physically closer I get 20 more ping to there). So now every match i'm going to be averaging around 100 ping? I pull half that to my favorite Chicago servers. Not to mention one player will be hosting so they will have a ~5ms ping. So assuming that a professonal team is on LAN, one team will be pulling 5 ping, the other will be pulling 100+. So much for the next quote... Atleast with dedicated servers both teams would be pulling 30-40 ping. Basically balanced.

You said IWnet was created to help stop piracy, what do you say about the Xbox 360 version leaked and shared on torrent sites?
Vince-IW: IWnet was designed to make the MP experience on PC easier and more balanced.

...PC gamers don't want that. They want a PC experience. Whats next locking our resolution to 720p so that everyone's on the same level even more? Blowing up someones computer if they use macro keys?

Has IWnet been tested in European settings? My clan plays european leagues and we got ppl from Eastern europe, UK and Sweden meeting in the same match. How is this going to play out considering siginificant differences in Bandwith and connection qualities between players. Will host player always have the ping advantage. Can a match be hosted by 'third' person, not taking part in the match?
Mackey-IW: Players do not control who hosts.

Please give me a direct answer. On the PC version. Are all games hosted by players, and is there a 5 second delay when host migration is in effect?
Vince-IW: yes.

Oh lord.

What are the current steps being taken in regard to active blocking measures that some major ISPs have taken regarding Peer 2 Peer connections, such as what Comcast does?
Mackey-IW: Only players capable of hosting will be host.

They seem incredibly ill informed. Comcast customers can use P2P services just fine... they are just vastly limited. There is nothing stopping a Comcast player from hosting, it would just be a degraded experience if they go through Comcast's packet shaping.

Since we can not kick people in ranked matches, how will we stop hackers who get past VAC?
Mackey-IW: Our goal is to ban hackers from the game.

VAC is good, as long as they keep it updated. Which worrys me who has the ability to update it? Valve sure as hell hardly updates it for their own games.
This also means DO NOT even attempt to create a FOV Hack for multiplayer. VAC isnt just some toy shit that kicks you like Punkbuster, this is you're permanently banned for life.



Oh boy I have to stop, they are going to pop a blood vessel.

[whismerhill]

LOL "they are going to ban hackers" ... :lol:

let me correct them : they will ban some "hackers" (or rather cheaters but whatever) but there will still be some around ...

there is absolutely no way to stop 100% of all cheaters on a game

ho well .... thanks DaFox for the extensive criticism that was a nice report and quite funny at that ;)

@StingingVelvet & eZ
that was funny as hell but maybe he's right to mention it....
some game ports are kind of weird with no possibilities to customize controls and quite difficult spread out key settings (WSAD + IKJL + UpDownLeftRight + KeyPad8-KeyPad2-KeyPad4-KeyPad6, all those set to different controls for example ....)

[yogibbear]

How the hell do you FAIL so hard with this game?

Copy + paste modern warfare... change some textures... re-release the game... let the community lap it up...

BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

THEY FAIL EVEN HARDER THAN JUST RE-RELEASING THE PRODUCT.....

Fumble, Burn, Fail, Take-a-shovel IW and dig your own graves!!! F)&(*!()!*#()!*) S_H$_@(@(eads

[DaFox]

that was funny as hell but maybe he's right to mention it....
some game ports are kind of weird with no possibilities to customize controls

The problem is that this should not be a port. Accessibility wins though. More than 90% of people take the elevator.

[GeneralAdmission]

And don't forgot official confirmation of the max player count:

Mackey-IW: Games cap out at 9v9.

wow

WOW

WOW

You guys pretty much said it all--IW has decided to blind, hamstring, and neuter the MW franchise.

I nominate IW for the first annual WSGF PC Developer FAIL Award. (Looks like they'll be winning next year's Narrow Minded award in a landslide anyway).

-ADD-
More info from HERE via BASH.

#
IW_has_failedus: Why did you make the game soo much easier for noobs by putting in death streaks and pro marty/jugger. Now people can't be good at the game because they will always be killed by the noobs with triple jugger or w.e. You guys have to go back to your roots. I realize that all you guys are after is money, but come on. What about the true fans. :(
#
Vince-IW: Just do me a favor and play the game first, we put a LOT of work into balance. We are big gamers here at IW and want a great experience just as much as you.

Translation: please just purchase our (unreturnable) game for $60 and then decide if you don't like all the things we screwed up.

#
maniac1969: Vince, there are 178,000 voices that say you need dedicated servers for the PC. COD4 is the bigest online game in history! Why in the world would you take away dedicated servers and change the whole MP experience for us? And Mackey, the PC version with dedicated servers is already the best experience the way it is!
#
Vince-IW: All I can say is that we changed it to make it a better and easier experience. Also, not all of the names on that list are legit. ;)
#
Mackey-IW: 402 signed it 4 times I heard.

IW: Thousands of our gamers are upset? That couldn't possibly be true, and they're out of their minds anyway. Yeah, we had 402 sign it just to ****-around with them and so we could say the list isn't legit. LOL

#
GeneralClean: Have you tested IW.net with connecting with overseas players? And if so what were the results?
#
Vince-IW: Yes, seemed good.

Way to answer a question with a relevant response. If 100ms is great, what can seemed good be? 250ms? What is 'seemed good'? Is he not even sure of his own answer or is this coming straight from the rectum?

The best:

Snattch from Pandemic had this to say on Twitter: "No leaning, no /record feature, no dedicated servers, no mod tools, no game?"

[Mach1.9pants]

Yeah big kick in the teeth for PC, 9v9! FFS!

I suppose (because of no dedicted servers) we should have seen it coming, p2p can't handle 32v32!

[The_cranky_hermit]

I nominate IW for the first annual WSGF PC Developer FAIL Award. (Looks like they'll be winning next year's Narrow Minded award in a landslide anyway).

Are we speculating that they'll have poor WS support too? Because the point of that award is to dishonor companies that neglect WS support - not for pissing everyone off in ways that have nothing to do with WS.

[GeneralAdmission]

I nominate IW for the first annual WSGF PC Developer FAIL Award. (Looks like they'll be winning next year's Narrow Minded award in a landslide anyway).

Are we speculating that they'll have poor WS support too? Because the point of that award is to dishonor companies that neglect WS support - not for pissing everyone off in ways that have nothing to do with WS.

Sorry I didn't post the quote earlier. From the transcript:

Is there a console in the PC version of the game, so we can change our field of view from the xbox's default 65 FOV to 80 also can we tweaks the weapon damage for each gun, removes perks, graphical debris, breathing sway, also thru console like we where able to before or is this all gone?
Vince-IW: We would like you to play the game the way we designed and balanced it.

Doesn't bode well.

related info:

#
lucifeR: If there is no console, how can you expect people with low-end PC's to play the game with sufficent FPS? As in COD4, you could remove things such as decals in order to gain much needed frames per second.
#
Mackey-IW: You can turn stuff down in the menus.

[Abram]

An awful thing about this is that since the loudest consumer (the console owner) will surely love every aspect of this game, and the PC needs will surely go unheard, into the future.

As another user said, what as so hard about slapping on some new textures and code to COD4?

Though, from what I've already of COD4 maps, 9vs9 seems like it should be enough. But of course its' silly, being that PC can handle sooooo much more.



This thread makes me a sad panda.

[The_cranky_hermit]

Well, in COD4, the FOV corresponded to the vertical, not the horizontal. If that stays the same in MW2, losing the ability to increase the FOV doesn't necessarily mean poor WS support.

[StingingVelvet]

An awful thing about this is that since the loudest consumer (the console owner) will surely love every aspect of this game, and the PC needs will surely go unheard, into the future.

PC gamers really need to stop blaming consoles for everything... this is mainstreaming, it has nothing to do with consoles and everything to do with games being a mainstream industry now. When they say they are putting MORE effort into the PC version because of this, not less, they are not lying. Building something like IWNet is a pain.

This is about the 95% of people who will buy the game and want to play singleplayer, dabble in some online matches and don't care what a server is or a clan is. That is who this is aimed at, on BOTH the PC and consoles, the mainstream consumer.

In this genre, I am one of them. This news makes me happy. I know why it makes you upset though, and still do not support it.

[Abram]

Ya. Mainstream = console = less attention to PC.