9800GX2 ALT+TAB Kills FPS in games

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » 12 Jun 2008, 03:12

ALT+TABbing out then into a game kills the FPS until the game is quit then restarted, anything you guys have to advise would be appreciated.

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 12 Jun 2008, 21:26

I seem to remember seeing somewhere that this is an SLI issue... :?

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » 13 Jun 2008, 00:17

Well I did more reasearch, and I suspect it may only apply to source games namely CS:S. No one has posted a solution...

I know it is not areo because disabling it had no affect, neither did compatibility mode.

I will try turning off SLI.

Ascii_Aficionado · Post by **Ascii_Aficionado** » 14 Jun 2008, 04:37

Unless you're talking about an alt tab framerate issue that's specific only to sli then It's not an SLI issue, it randomly happens to many people using any video card/configuration/sli/non sli.I've only heard of this happening to 2 people using ATI cards and both people I know irl. That's why some developers disable alt-tab/windows-key so that people don't keep going to desktop and then when the random bad framerate shows up they start to freak out or start complaining to a company for various reasons.

Though, It seems to happen more often with Nvidia cards from what I've seen. Since it happens on both it leads me to believe the problem lies in the OS/DX or any combination such as that, but I can rule out that it's not just Nvidia or ATI that has this problem.

I don't understand the exact cause but it can be fixed by repeatedly going back from desktop to the game and the framerate will fix itself most of the time. I've explained this to many many people and sadly literally no one knows why this happens. It almost seems as if the process priority has changed b/c backgrounds programs seem to speed up.

Think about this, developers know about the issue and have known for many many years hence the disabling of alt-tab in some games. It also itself proves that the problem doesn't soley fall on the video card designer b/c I assume if it was related to 1 and only 1 brand of cards it would of been fixed.

I've seen this problem personally on Nvidia cards ranging from the 5200 series all the way to the 7800 series on XP and in literally over 30 games using various engines and rendering types *OpenGL/D3D* *I haven't owned an ATI card since the literal first Radeon card so I can't state any personal facts about it happening with ATI cards except for the few times I've seen it happen on my friends pc's that have ATI cards as well as the countless people online saying the same thing as the original poster and they have ATI cards too.

In summation It's one of those "side effects" that just straight up happens and simply put we have to just deal with it

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » 14 Jun 2008, 05:01

It seems to be unique to CS:S, I get problems in Lost coast but they are nowhere near as pronounced.

This is strange... I love CS:S

Ascii_Aficionado · Post by **Ascii_Aficionado** » 14 Jun 2008, 05:05

Please re-read my post, I've edited it a few times

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » 14 Jun 2008, 05:11

Okay I guess I am missing something, what was it in your post you wanted me to see?

Not everyone has this problem, which implies that there is a way to fix it, I contacted EVGA and they gave me a few tips, including a fresh driver install, running memtest86 and 3dmark06 to see if either comes up with problems. I will do those things now.

Ascii_Aficionado · Post by **Ascii_Aficionado** » 14 Jun 2008, 05:14

Not everyone has this problem, which implies that there is a way to fix it, I contacted EVGA and they gave me a few tips, including a fresh driver install, running memtest86 and 3dmark06 to see if either comes up with problems. I will do those things now.

That's just a bullshit explanation companies give, it won't solve anything unless as I said it's a new specific SLI only alt tab problem you're talking about b/c as I said it's been happening to people for over 8 years.It doesn't happen to everyone, I can alt tab 3432432 times out of a game and it's fine but then it randomly happens. It's completely and utterly random

My main point is this

I've seen this problem personally on Nvidia cards ranging from the 5200 series all the way to the 7800 series on XP and in literally over 30 games using various engines and rendering types *OpenGL/D3D* *I haven't owned an ATI card since the literal first Radeon card so I can't state any personal facts about it happening with ATI cards except for the few times I've seen it happen on my friends pc's that have ATI cards as well as the countless people online saying the same thing as the original poster and they have ATI cards too.

Universal point = it's not your card/configuration, nothing can be done to fix it

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » 14 Jun 2008, 05:27

If it were completely random it wouldn't happen every time I alt tabbed out of CS:S Ive done it at least 12 times and it has happened each time.

There is a way to fix this problem, and the fix is probably simple, it is just finding it that will be the problem.

Ascii_Aficionado · Post by **Ascii_Aficionado** » 14 Jun 2008, 05:39

There is a way to fix this problem, and the fix is probably simple, it is just finding it that will be the problem.

No, there isn't.. well there is but it would imply not ever using Windows which would basically stop you from gaming. b/c I promise you the main cause is Windows on some level, or you could play in windowed mode in games that support it which is the only known way around this but it's not a fix.

I'm tired of repeating this too, the alt-tab issue is completely random granted it does have a habbit of of occuring more often in certain games than in others which logic dictates it's a combination of the game/engine/os/drivers. it's as simple as that and no fix has ever been found EXCEPT for playing in windowed mode which is unacceptable in most games. I can play a source game and alt tab 45 times and it won't do it then it randomly happens and i try 1 hour later and it could happen every other time.

It does happen much more often in source games, BUT that's also on any configuration/os/dx version Keep in mind this still randomly happens in many other games.... just leave it as a side effect you have to deal with.

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » 14 Jun 2008, 06:03

Well I found a workaround... Don't run at triple head resolutions! I can't believe that thats the problem, I will do more tests to confirm.

Ascii_Aficionado · Post by **Ascii_Aficionado** » 14 Jun 2008, 07:38

You're really not understanding what I said, gl

Cynagen · Post by **Cynagen** » 14 Jun 2008, 10:25

TH resolutions, and you expect to be able to just Alt+Tab in and out freely, even though for as long as games have been on the PC, there's always been problems doing that kind of stunt?

Here's a clear cut case of "The only way to flog a dead horse, is to turn it into glue."

Can we please lock the thread, this is pointless now, comments are here explaining the situation in detail and the fact that this has been happening for over a decade with games. (I've had problems with alt-tabbing games since 96 with C&C Red Alert's tendency to freeze entirely, or refuse to draw the screen anymore, leaving it black.)

Mesh · Post by **Mesh** » 14 Jun 2008, 18:46

Same here, many games assume that you're never gonna do anything at the same time. Some even make you do backflips just to exit (assassin's creed)

Only way to be certain not to have problems is if a game supports windowed mode and even some of those have problems.

At a minimum the game res. and desktop res. should be same to reduce problems.

Ascii_Aficionado · Post by **Ascii_Aficionado** » 14 Jun 2008, 18:49

the fact that this has been happening for over a decade with games.

The genius who made this thread doesn't grasp that concept so I just gave up.

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » 14 Jun 2008, 18:56

[EDIT]I understand that this has been happening in lots of different games for a long time but that fact is IRRELEVANT it is a problem and I want it fixed, I can reproduce the bug and I can work around it, thus a fix should be possible. What gave you the impression that I did not understand that?[EDIT]

As a bug tester by profession I know that every bug is under the right circumstances reproduceable and every bug that did not occur under certain circumstances is preventable.

This bug fits in the class of a bug that should be reproduceable and should also be avoidable. The fact that the steps to reproduce are as simple as the following...
1 - Boot computer.
2 - Launch CS:S in 3840*1024
3 - Press ALT+TAB
4 - Press ALT+TAB
5 - Observe reduced frame rate and responsiveness 5 out of 5 attempts to reproduce

... indicates what I just said is true. The bug can be avoided completely by changing the resolution indicates that it may be a system performance problem. But really it could be anything.

I ran some tests.

All tests were run at a resolution of 1280 * 1024

Video Stress Test launching game no ALT+TAB
199.03 FPS
195.86 FPS
196.61 FPS
196.40 FPS
Average FPS = 196.975

Video Stress test ALT+TAB before and after each test
196.78 FPS
198.37 FPS
198.17 FPS
197.27 FPS
Average FPS = 197.6745

Also as a note during the tests I noticed textures not loading properly and other graphical anomalies. These occurred more in the first non ALT+TAB set of tests.

These numbers prove that the problem does not occur at a resolution of 1280*1024.

I will perform some tests at 3840*1024 to illustrate how bad the problem is, I will also try at lower triple head resolutions. And in windowed mode.

Ascii_Aficionado · Post by **Ascii_Aficionado** » 14 Jun 2008, 19:06

The Alt Tab problems are

Do you not grasp this concept ?

I'm now officially done trying to explain this to you, your "it doesn't happen @ 1280x1024" comment shows just how much you really don't understand after having this explained to you that it's not your resolution or anything such as that.

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » 14 Jun 2008, 19:11

If it is completely random then who come I can reproduce it with 100% accuracy?

Ascii_Aficionado · Post by **Ascii_Aficionado** » 14 Jun 2008, 19:17

Because as I said in some games it happens more often, but the underlying problem is it's still completely random it's random to the point that you can take one game that it happens quite often in but then you can try to reproduce it and it won't happen. Some games seem more prone to do it but 10 mins later you can't reproduce the problem very often, but even those sometimes don't do it at all, So saying it happens 100% of the time in 1 game doesn't mean crap, b/c it doesn't always happen in other games but the fact is it has occured in some games but not 100% of the time so you haven't figured out anything.

The simple concept that it DOESN'T happen 100% of the time in all games means your "test" was a waste of time. Welcome to the world of people who understand this and have for the past 10 years and are intelligent enough to not freaking use alt tab

I'm tired of looking @ this thread.

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » 14 Jun 2008, 19:28

We just have different understandings of the definition of random, yours wouldn't hold up where I work, where I work what I have is considered a consistent non random bug.

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