ATi and Fixed Aspect Scaling

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 04 Mar 2006, 23:20

OK, we've all made a comment at one time or another about how nVidia support fixed aspect scaling in their drivers, and ATi don't... well, I've now got proof that some of the ATi card/driver combos do in fact support fixed aspect scaling...

This is on an Acer 8204WLMi (Core Duo T2500, X1600M, WSXGA+)

The only bugger is that it requires Catalyst Control Centre, from what I can work out so far... ATiTrayTool doesn't allow it from the quick test I tried.

Post by **ctrlsteef** » 05 Mar 2006, 00:02

Isn't that because of it being a notebook?
It says "notebook panel properties".
I believe they have a special notebook version of the driver that has the option.

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 05 Mar 2006, 00:21

I don't know - I fully intend to find out, though, when I get back to my X1900 box... (I hate being split between three sites... :cry:) I'll be installing the CCC to check.

It's possible that it depends completely on the chip, and the implementation of said chip - I know that the Mobility Radeon 9000 doesn't have it, and I've seen screenshots that show the 9600 Mobility both with this option and without it, on different laptops.

However, it does mean that ATi don't completely ignore FAS... so there is light at the end of the tunnel for those desktop users... maybe. :)

DuncanR2N · Post by **DuncanR2N** » 05 Mar 2006, 02:28

Just as an FYI, this is what mine shows:

And it only shows the centered timing options if I am using a DVI connection.

If I'm using a standard VGA connection it looks more like this:

That's actually for my other monitor, I'm just too lazy to switch it.

I have put in a request for the ATI drivers to be updated to support this and I would urge other ATI users to do so as well. The more requests for it the more likely they will see the need to add it.

If you want to request an enhancement to the ATI drivers you can do so here.

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 05 Mar 2006, 14:28

Thanks Duncan. :) That's one for, and three against... (I've got a Mobility 9000 and an X1900XT that don't have FAS either...)

Bugger. :(

Post by **skipclarke** » 05 Mar 2006, 17:04

ASUS EAX800XT CCC

NOTE: last Cat updates (6.2) also added 2 resolutions above 1920 X1200

Crosscutt · Post by **Crosscutt** » 13 Mar 2006, 02:43

I have a x600 on my sony laptop, 17in ws and I have to go to sony website to download drivers. What really sucks is last time I check, I couldn't even get catalyst for my sony. Or any decent drivers. any suggestions out there???

ThisIsMyUserName · Post by **ThisIsMyUserName** » 13 Mar 2006, 17:01

I'm pretty sure it's tied into you having DVI or VGA, not the driver version -- unless maybe it's an ancient version.

I don't have the option for scaling anything, and am using 6.2s with a VGA connection.

What I'd really like to know is, if nVidia users with a VGA connection can do it. Then it would be a limitation of ATI's drivers for sure.

Timpalimpa · Post by **Timpalimpa** » 13 Mar 2006, 21:28

Crosscut, I used to google for Catalyst Mobility download, and there would always be a website somewhere with the direct link to ATI bypassing the silly checker application. If not you can always find the latest catalyst mobility drivers hosted somewhere else.

kalis0 · Post by **kalis0** » 19 Mar 2006, 14:42

My conclusions on fixed scaling on ATI:

just to let you know where I am this far,
and regarding this:

ok guys, i made a new discovery. This problem seems to ONLY arise on 1280x800 screens. And I figured out why. It may be just coincidence but for 1440x900 screen, a 4:3 resolution that was stretched and had a preserved ratio would be stretched to 1200x900. For 1680x1050, it would be stretched to 1400x1050. For 1920x1200, it would be stretched to 1600x1200. And finally, for 1280x800, it would be stretched to 1066.66667x800

I have an ASUS M6V, ATI Mob X600, 1280x800 LCD panel, CRT output, no DVI output
My girlfriend has a HP dv4200, ATI Mob X700, 1280x800 LCD panel, CRT output, no DVI output

With default drivers (asus ones on the asus, and hp ones on the hp, which both include ATI CP, not CCC, and are in the range of catalyst 5.5-5.12):
- my asus has widescreen scaling and unscaled options, no fixed scaling.
- my gf's hp has all three options

with latest omega drivers (cat 6.2, with ati/omega cp)
- my asus has widescreen scaling and unscaled options, no fixed scaling.
- my gf's hp has all three options

so now I conclude this:
- same drivers yield different options: drivers do not matter
- native res are the same: native res does not matter
- native res is 1280x800: this discards the above quote's conclusions

and I estimate this to be true:
- same ati hardware yield different result (some 9600 have fixed scaling, some don't. it is known that 9600 and 9700 are roughly the same. it is known that x600 and x700 are roughly the same too): ati hardware might just not matter.

therefore I conclude:
1=> fixed scaling is made available or not relative to revisions or batches of chipsets (sheer luck is needed)
2=> fixed scaling is made available or not through a video BIOS setting (flashing is needed, and maybe hacking the bios)
3=> fixed scaling is made available or not relative to the panel connected
4=> fixed scaling is made available or not relative to a complex combination of parameters

note: ATT, ATICCC or ATICP, all yield same results, so which one one will use, it does not matter.
note: omega drivers are an easy way to bypass the catalyst mobility check.

timekillr · Post by **timekillr** » 30 May 2006, 15:14

BTW, I have some more info to add regarding this issue.

I have a Samsung 215TW and I enabled the Use Centered Timings setting..

10 minutes later, my monitor died. :(

Luckily I was able to exchange it, but I'd be careful. I can't know for sure if it was that setting itself that killed it, but I won't try it anymore (especially since I can set my monitor to 4:3 instead of 16:10).

SteveH6479 · Post by **SteveH6479** » 10 Jul 2006, 08:03

It's possible that it depends completely on the chip, and the implementation of said chip - I know that the Mobility Radeon 9000 doesn't have it.

just to make your suspicions about it not dependign on the chip, I came across a sony vaio once with a radeon 9000 IGP at comp usa. It had the option. 95% of vaios have the option. What do vaios have that others dont? a screen driver!!

My conclusions on fixed scaling on ATI:

just to let you know where I am this far,
and regarding this:
ok guys, i made a new discovery. This problem seems to ONLY arise on 1280x800 screens. And I figured out why. It may be just coincidence but for 1440x900 screen, a 4:3 resolution that was stretched and had a preserved ratio would be stretched to 1200x900. For 1680x1050, it would be stretched to 1400x1050. For 1920x1200, it would be stretched to 1600x1200. And finally, for 1280x800, it would be stretched to 1066.66667x800

therefore I conclude:
1=> fixed scaling is made available or not relative to revisions or batches of chipsets (sheer luck is needed)
2=> fixed scaling is made available or not through a video BIOS setting (flashing is needed, and maybe hacking the bios)
3=> fixed scaling is made available or not relative to the panel connected
4=> fixed scaling is made available or not relative to a complex combination of parameters

I posted that resolution thing and since then I have found many more findings simlar to yours, which makes me take back what I said. And as far as opinions go for your possibilities. I really think its number 3 and only number 3. Something makes me doubt the other possibilities. I have more proof to back this up too. I posted this on driverheaven. Theres a lot of people complaining about this there as well.

This subject is so old... people have been complaining about this since like catalyst 3.5 or somethin. You would think it would be resolved by now. I sent a ticket to ati for this myself. Their response was lame. This PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!! I have a laptop computer with a 15.4 inch display and a radeon 9000 IGP. I, too, am missing this aspect ratio option. He gave me this bs about ati support being the manufacturers problem. He also told me if it was a desktop problem, then it must be a fault of screen drivers, which is extremely lame... especially if nvidia doesnt need screen drivers. So I finally managed to make him pinpoint the problem. I have no idea if he is bsing (tech support people dont always konw what they're talkin about), but he seems believable. I asked him about the issue where a screen has no drivers. Here is what he said:

"Then you would have a problem with the monitor. If it does not have drivers and relies on EDID information there will be issues. It is a similar problem that the laptops have. There is no information provided by the screen to the drivers, the dirvers have to be custom written for the display."

So if any of you good programmers/hackers/reverse engineers can figure out how to write a screen driver or spoof the EDID or somethin, then maybe we can get somewhere. But still. THIS IS SO LAME!!!!!! SCREW YOU ATI!!!!!!!!

At the moment, my laptop is being repaired so I cant try cat 6.6. Has anyone tried it yet? Not that there is much hope they fixed it...

heres the link if you wanna read it http://www.driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=105057

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 14 Jul 2006, 18:45

just to make your suspicions about it not dependign on the chip, I came across a sony vaio once with a radeon 9000 IGP at comp usa. It had the option. 95% of vaios have the option. What do vaios have that others dont? a screen driver!!

One problem: I never install a screen driver, and I've had the option on two ATi cards now...

SteveH6479 · Post by **SteveH6479** » 16 Jul 2006, 22:30

[quote]just to make your suspicions about it not dependign on the chip, I came across a sony vaio once with a radeon 9000 IGP at comp usa. It had the option. 95% of vaios have the option. What do vaios have that others dont? a screen driver!!

One problem: I never install a screen driver, and I've had the option on two ATi cards now...

Thats true... but my thinking was that some screens have crappy EDIDS that don't provide enough information to the ati drivers, and the screen driver solves this problem. The cards you claim have the option are probably hooked up to screens with EDIDS that provide a lot of information. When the ati tech guy I talked to started talking about EDIDS, my suspicions were starting to be confirmed. But it seems there are no hackers out there that can play with EDIDS and try to spoof them or something or write custom screen driver so we will never find out if I am close. :(. The part that makes me mad is that nvidia can do it on any card, any screen, on almost any driver regardless of screen drivers or EDIDS or whatever else there is.

Post by **Paradigm Shifter** » 17 Jul 2006, 20:00

That's possible.

Since Titan Quest sent my X1900XT to the great VPU dump in the sky, I've switched to a (pro tem) 6800GS. Now, the nVidia drivers have FAS, but now the screen adamantly stretches the BIOS to fill the screen. It used to be 4:3 with black bars on the X1900...

Eh, I don't know enough about the detailed inner workings of all these things (although I would certainly like to) to be able to think what could be causing that... and it isn't drivers, as no drivers are loaded at that stage... ;)

iieeann · Post by **iieeann** » 20 Jul 2006, 01:37

Only ATi mobility driver has the option to stretch and maintain aspect ratio. Normal CCC doesnt have.

I really hate this kind of stupid action by ATi that ignores soooo many users on the earth. I really regret buying the X1900XTX after i thought so hard between it and 7900GTX.

NVIDIA has the option, ATI lose in this case.

Post by **Gilly** » 23 Jul 2006, 23:58

Only ATi mobility driver has the option to stretch and maintain aspect ratio. Normal CCC doesnt have.

I really hate this kind of stupid action by ATi that ignores soooo many users on the earth. I really regret buying the X1900XTX after i thought so hard between it and 7900GTX.

NVIDIA has the option, ATI lose in this case.

Doug is on a desktop "normal" CCC, he has the option no?

Lloyd1337 · Post by **Lloyd1337** » 25 Jul 2006, 02:31

I'm assuming that it only detects wether you have a widescreen/makes the option available if you are connecting via DVI?

SteveH6479 · Post by **SteveH6479** » 28 Jul 2006, 07:27

I'm assuming that it only detects wether you have a widescreen/makes the option available if you are connecting via DVI?

Connecting via DVI sometimes solves the problem but most of the time it doesn't. The issue is way deeper than just connecting via DVI.

Lloyd1337 · Post by **Lloyd1337** » 28 Jul 2006, 08:22

Works fine with DVI for me. I'm using a Radeon X1900XT and Viewsonic VX2025WM, BTW.

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