Widescreen Gaming Forum

I'll be building a new system soon and believe it or not, the sound card is turning out to be one of the hardest choices. After some woes with Turtle Beach, M-Audio and Creative sound cards, I'm looking for alternatives. I prefer an analog sound, which also suits the speakers I have better.

Here's the criteria for my needs in order of priority.

1) Games:
Driver support must be good for games, although EAX 4,5 are not top priorities. I do not, however, want to have to deal with situations where some games won't launch or have severe audio problems. Performance must be good for games. I prefer not having any sound features that require games be written specifically for it, like X-RAM. Positional audio must be good enough to determine where enemies are and ideally delay time of each channel adjustable for tuning spatial parameters. Must be able to record software sound sources such as Fraps, which my M-Audio doesn't.

2) Movies:
Audio volume must be good for dialog, though KMPlayer's Normalizer feature helps a lot with that. Frequencies must be appropriately divided between channels. I want to clearly hear dialog mostly in the center channel with slight but noticeable fade to other channels when characters off center are speaking. Positional audio must be good and seamless. Explosions and bass music (they put so much rap background music in movies now) must be realistic and not boomy or muddy.

3) Music:
Midrange must be warm and bass deep, that's why I prefer analog sound. Bass must be tight and not boomy or muddy though, something some analog cards lack. I'm thinking slit foil electrolytic capacitors would help with the analog sound and keep things tight if they are fairly good size, even if I lose a bit of volume vs solid state ones. Highs must not be overly bright or muffled. SNR must be good, without a big drop from that of the DSP on output, something some cards suffer from. Stereo separation must be good, as well as dynamic range.

4) HDTV:
I'd ideally like to be able to connect an HDTV (as I may end up using one for a display) via it's optical or digital audio out to the sound card and get the 5.1 audio (from HDTV broadcasts that have it) without having to do a pass through to a home audio receiver. Few if any sound cards do this, though I don't know why. At the very least it seems you should be able to connect the TV's stereo out via a standard stereo line in and use something like Dolby Neo PC, (which is getting more popular) to upmix the stereo signal to simulate 5.1.

If not I may have to use a monitor and TV tuner card like the OnAir GT, which comes with Nvidia's Pure Video Decoder and software decodes the 5.1 signal carried by the TV's optical or digital audio output. I'd really prefer a 16:9 display though and monitors lack the video processing TVs have. You also HAVE to have your PC working to be able to watch TV that way and as far as I've read, none of the TV tuner cards have quite as good image quality as an actual TV.

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Some of the sound cards I'm looking into are the Razer Barracuda AC1, ASUS Xonar D2X, HT Omega Claro and AuzenTech X-Fi Prelude. The AuzenTech X-Fi Prelude is the only Creative chipset card I would consider. Though I'm not exactly thrilled about what I've read/heard regarding X-Fi chipsets. The Audigy has the same surround chip the X-Fi does. This was verified by AuzenTech and rather evident in the fact that you can download an "Audigy to X-Fi mod", which unlocks the SE, LS and Value Audigy to 24 bit and even Crystalizer feature.

Of the above cards, only the Razer has slit foil caps. It is also of course designed with gaming as the first priority being a Razer product. It also has an extensive software suite and robust DSP capable of some pretty good surround formats, including Neo PC. You can even fine tune the ms delay from each channel to adjust real time spatial parameters, which according to a review I read allows you to adjust for how well you can hear the enemy positions according to whether you're playing with 5.1 speakers or headphones.

The Razer is the only card I've seen that appears to be good at everything I want to do, there are catches though. The Razer guys I talked to weren't sure if it could play the 5.1 audio from HDTV broadcasts without a pass through to a receiver. I'm awaiting an email response from their engineers about that.

The first guy I talked to thought it could via optical out from the TV to optical in on the card, then decode it via the hardware decoder. This, sounded like quite an exaggeration. I'm expecting the reality to be it's Neo PC would simulate 5.1 via the stereo line in, if it even can play HDTV 5.1 at all by itself.

One of the reviews I read (TechGage) also said it's actual SNR at output is much lower than the advertised, about 87 vs 117 and the Audigy 4 came in at 91 vs 113. This means the Razer's drop in SNR from DSP to output is 25.6% vs the Audigy 4's 19.5% drop. It's also hard to find at a good price anymore.

Despite the SNR issue, all reviews said it had great sound. TechGage also said the test results may have been a flaw in their methodology. I doubt ANY sound cards actually measure at output anything close to the manufacturer's claimed SNR because it only refers to the DSP chip itself, not the output SNR. Still though, an over 25% drop is quite a bit.

Newegg says they used to carry the Razer, but they're out of stock and can't tell me what the price will be or when they'll get more in. You HAVE to buy the Razer from a retailer that is on their authorized resellers list to get the warranty. Of those an Amazon vendor had the best price at $150.

Has anyone here used any of the above sound cards and can you tell me how well it works for the above priorities?

I dont have time to read the whole post right now but... Have a look into blueGears, I have an audiophile friend that swares by his b-enspire. Its now basically the default soundcard that we throw into PC builds for people that request a discreet soundcard.

http://www.bgears.com/b-enspirer.html

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10780BD5798&vpn=B-ENSPIRER&manufacture=BLUEGEARS is this the one?

And what about front audio?

BTW, I added a line to the gaming criteria I forgot to mention...

"Must be able to record software sound sources such as Fraps, which my M-Audio doesn't."

Yes I'm aware of the Bluegears bEnspire Da Fox, and it is very well received on Newegg. I was actually considering it back in late '07 when I orginally planned to build this rig at the end of that year. However I'm not sure it will record software sources and it's a fairly old model that I'm pretty sure doesn't have some of the newer tech, like Neo PC.

It does however have very good analog type sound from what I've heard. What about the drivers, do they work well with the latest XP and Vista service packs?

It does however have very good analog type sound from what I've heard. What about the drivers, do they work well with the latest XP and Vista service packs?

http://www.bgears.com/download.html

"Must be able to record software sound sources such as Fraps, which my M-Audio doesn't."

I'm being picky here. But Audacity (which is freeware) can do this.

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EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SC ACX 2.0 3.5GB | 3 X LG Flatron 24EA53VQ in Nvidia Surround | Optoma HD20

[quote]"Must be able to record software sound sources such as Fraps, which my M-Audio doesn't."

I'm being picky here. But Audacity (which is freeware) can do this.I have Audacity, but why on Earth even if it can record game audio would I want to run it while gaming when Fraps can record both audio and video with less chance of out of sync audio and video? Furthermore Fraps causes plenty FPS drain on it's own, let alone having yet another program running.

Anyways, I did some refreshing of my memory on the b-Enspirer and it does actually have Neo PC and Dolby Pro Logic II and IIx. It also shows recording settings in it's software so I assume it probably will work with Fraps.

About the only complaints I've read about it are the speaker jacks can wear out and some say the card itself lasted only a little more than a year for them. One review I read said that the C-Media Oxygen DSP it uses gets extremely hot and might benefit from a heatsink.

The Oxygen DSP is typically found on cards with solid state caps, which are cooler running. I think a case with good airflow and placement of the card at the bottom of the case might be a good idea. I can attest to the jacks being delicate, as they look to be the same type my M-Audio uses, which has one which doesn't work and another requiring a rubber band on the plug to pull it to the side to connect properly.

Granted it was probably due to my not being careful enough not to tug on the wires here and there, but the metal gold plated jacks on even the cheap used Audigy I bought are much sturdier both externally and internally. You can tell just by the feel of inserting the plug and by looking at them. To Bluegears defense their b-Enspirer is feature packed, near audiophile grade, and at the top of it's price range. It's nice that they're US based too and I've read their response time is fast.

I'd just stick with X-Fi. They have it all, the new cards aren't too bad on an audiophile level, and you mentioned more gaming than discreet music listening.

I actual have considered the X-Fi Titanium Pro for a few reasons, many say the Pci-Ex versions have eliminated the crackle and pop problem, it has X-RAM which is supposed to raise FPS a bit, and being it's a Creative, is well beta tested for by game developers. There are other criteria that DO matter to me though, like good 5.1 audio in movies and TV and though it is bumped lower on my poriority list, I DO still want good music audio.

I am finding out some things about X-Fis lately that aren't exactly impressive though. It's based on the same host 5.1 chip the lower end Audigy is. That's why you can literally download for free the "Audigy to X-Fi Mod" and unlock 24 bit resolution, Crystalizer, etc, on an Audigy Value, SE, or LS.

The fact that it shares the same 5.1 chip was even verified to me over the phone by AuzenTech, whom make the best X-Fi chipset card available. It even has swappable Op Amps on the front channels. Yesterday I was watching an eBay auction on a new Razer Barracuda AC1, a $200 card. It went for $86, I could have won it with a bid of $86.50 at the last second. Razer voids warranty on eBay purchases though.

Whatever I get I want it to be feature rich in the DSP, and have high quality positional audio and midrange and bass. The Creative cards I've sampled so far do not have good bass at all and the 5.1 audio is terrible in movies, putting dialog in all channels rather than focusing it mostly on the center channel.

I am now considering getting a 5.1 home theater receiver as a compliment to my next system so the 5.1 encoding on the audio card's DSP will be fully utilized. I am looking at the Onkyo TX-SR304, which has about the same wattage my speakers handle. The Creative cards, including X-Fis, are often mentioned in reviews like that of the Bluegears b-Enspirer as not having as robust encoding features for such use.

Considering Creative's reputation for poor driver support and that they over price their product, they really should support HT receivers better. Creative counts on the fact that gamers will automatically assume their cards have the fewest game related problems, but that's not always the case. In fact even EAX is over hyped and many feel other processing modes sound better, including myself.

Anyways, still, I admire that you can often plug in a Creative card and play a game that wouldn't play on a different brand of card. Also, I finally found the Y cables I've been looking for that allow you to hook up two sound cards to one set of speakers so you can just switch back and forth between sound devices in Windows. http://www.trianglecables.com/6in35minster.html

This means I can likely go with an X-Fi Titanium for gaming and install a more home theater/music capable card for movies and music, like the AudioTrak Prodigy 7.1 HiFi. http://www.audiotrak.net/products/prodigy71hifi/

Heck, if I get audiophile inspired by music again I may even get the Onkyo TX-SR506 7.1 channel receiver and get a couple decent front speakers with 5" mids and 1" silk dome tweets just for better music. Onkyo has a pretty solid refurb and extended warranty plan. You can get the refurbed TX-SR304 for only $120 or the TX-SR506 for $150 and the refurbs carry a 1 yr warranty and you can extend it to 3 yrs for only $40.

The plus of the 7.1 besides allowing me to have both music quality speakers and full surround is it has 1080p supporting HDMI pass through. This means no matter what sound card I have HDTV 5.1 audio would be decoded by the receiver.