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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2013, 13:55 
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First surface mirrors are expensive -- the quote I got was about ~600 AUD for half a mirror.

With that kind of price it might be better to just save up a little more and buy 2 projectors.

To the OP -- Is this like something you want to do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA8Bz510 ... 3&index=23


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2013, 21:34 
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OmniAtlas wrote:
First surface mirrors are expensive -- the quote I got was about ~600 AUD for half a mirror.

There are cheap first surface mirrors on ebay and also you can make them using optical mylar. Rear projection tvs use optical mylar mirrors. Personally, I'd suggest you make a frame and stretch optical mylar to it for the mirror. It's very cost effective for a first surface mirror of any size. You can even stretch it to a curved frame for use as a linear convex or concave mirror.

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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2013, 03:12 
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Hey Brad, I'm sorry but I'm new to projectors in general. I've seen some of your setups on different forums and I admire you greatly fir what you've done. Would you mind answering this for me?

Let's say I've build something like this myself, or I have bought a curved LCD (good luck to me with that).
Seeing as all (99.8%) of all games and "simulators" out there are using rectilinear projection, is there a software that would be able to hook into DirectX / OpenGL early on and produce a cylindrical /fisheye image with consistent image quality all across the screen (unlike after-warping, which would result in a loss of resolution closer to the center we get)?


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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2013, 09:05 
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BHawthorne wrote:
OmniAtlas wrote:
First surface mirrors are expensive -- the quote I got was about ~600 AUD for half a mirror.

There are cheap first surface mirrors on ebay and also you can make them using optical mylar. Rear projection tvs use optical mylar mirrors. Personally, I'd suggest you make a frame and stretch optical mylar to it for the mirror. It's very cost effective for a first surface mirror of any size. You can even stretch it to a curved frame for use as a linear convex or concave mirror.



Thanks, I'll take alook around. The quote I got was for a security (dome) surface mirror.


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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2013, 17:27 
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Randomoneh wrote:
Hey Brad, I'm sorry but I'm new to projectors in general. I've seen some of your setups on different forums and I admire you greatly fir what you've done. Would you mind answering this for me?

Let's say I've build something like this myself, or I have bought a curved LCD (good luck to me with that).
Seeing as all (99.8%) of all games and "simulators" out there are using rectilinear projection, is there a software that would be able to hook into DirectX / OpenGL early on and produce a cylindrical /fisheye image with consistent image quality all across the screen (unlike after-warping, which would result in a loss of resolution closer to the center we get)?


Not sure I understand your question. Pixels are a physical thing projected. Your projectors have a fixed amount. The pixels that splash outside the projection area are lost regardless of when you inject the correction. This is a physical loss, not virtual. To minimize that you have to be mindful of where you mount your projectors to minimize the loss. This is common to all circular screen regardless of pre-warp software used. I suppose you could create custom ground mirrors or optics designed to put most pixels within the screen area but that would be diminishing returns with the engineering involved. The whole idea behind software correction is to not have to expend large stacks of money on hardware solutions.

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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2013, 19:45 
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BHawthorne wrote:
Randomoneh wrote:
Hey Brad, I'm sorry but I'm new to projectors in general. I've seen some of your setups on different forums and I admire you greatly fir what you've done. Would you mind answering this for me?

Let's say I've build something like this myself, or I have bought a curved LCD (good luck to me with that).
Seeing as all (99.8%) of all games and "simulators" out there are using rectilinear projection, is there a software that would be able to hook into DirectX / OpenGL early on and produce a cylindrical /fisheye image with consistent image quality all across the screen (unlike after-warping, which would result in a loss of resolution closer to the center we get)?


Not sure I understand your question. Pixels are a physical thing projected. Your projectors have a fixed amount. The pixels that splash outside the projection area are lost regardless of when you inject the correction. This is a physical loss, not virtual. To minimize that you have to be mindful of where you mount your projectors to minimize the loss. This is common to all circular screen regardless of pre-warp software used. I suppose you could create custom ground mirrors or optics designed to put most pixels within the screen area but that would be diminishing returns with the engineering involved. The whole idea behind software correction is to not have to expend large stacks of money on hardware solutions.


If I slide my HFOV slider to 179° in any popular game, because of the rectilinear projection I will get an unrecognizable mess. Now, If software tries to warp that mess, the end result will be slightly better but still unrecognizable mess.
So, what software needs to do is to tap into the game before scene is rendered the way it is and render the scene cylindrically / spherically.

Actually, the most simple way to ask this question would be: is there a software that can inject a code into a modern game and allow me to render 360° view ( or anything above 179.999°) on my 360° screen?


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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2013, 21:03 
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Short answer is no, or I would already be using it. ;)

You are correct though. Game camera code is the limiting factor in all wide aspect ratio gaming -- be it with LCDs or projectors. Everything is dependant upon established spanning modes with Matrox TH2G, AMD Eyefinity and Nvidia Surround. If it looks like crap in those it'll look like crap in projection. The only way to really address that is to have the major engines address it in their dev kits. This is only going to become more of a factor in the future. A prime example is the 110 degree FOV in Oculus Rift use. There is a lot more vertical FOV with the Rift than regular game camera code is designed for. Ultimately it's a catch-22 issue. Got to have FOV capability before a title works well on exotic visual systems. Got to have an installed user base of exotic visual systems before they'll add in the camera mods. Personally, I'd love to do a UHD 4x1080p 2x2 Eyefinity full dome fisheye camera projection system for games, but almost nothing would run on it. I know of 2-3 titles that would but that would be it.

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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2013, 06:19 
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I didn't have any good mental examples of first surface mirrors other than what is in a rear projection tv and then I found this!!

http://www.cobrasimulation.com/index.php/home

Since I have no experience with these mirrors, in the example above is the mirror flat or (I assume) convex.

I'm pretty good with math but how does one go about calculating throw, distance curvature, mirror size, etc??

Appreciate any help you can throw my way :)


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2013, 08:18 
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I've actually spoken in detail with the manufacturer of that screen. It has some ok ideas but there are a few flaws in the design. Basically, it's using a Paul Bourke iDome security mirror design to achieve it's FOV with single projector. My suggestion is you learn from the design but not waste $5k on buying theirs.

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2013, 17:26 
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BHawthorne wrote:
I've actually spoken in detail with the manufacturer of that screen. It has some ok ideas but there are a few flaws in the design. Basically, it's using a Paul Bourke iDome security mirror design to achieve it's FOV with single projector. My suggestion is you learn from the design but not waste $5k on buying theirs.


Glad to hear it is based on the iDome...their execution is nice, but pricey.

If someone can do this in a package under ~2000, I am in.

w1080st projector = $1100
iDome mirror = $600
Immersive Display Desktop Pro = $200
Screen + mount = $500

~ $2500

Hmm...this could be a plausible project. Back to the drawing board...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 1b5EtAet4k


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