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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2009, 18:36 
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Joined: 13 Oct 2008, 07:06
Posts: 123
George, the obvious thing for you and I to do would be to create a Zip of panel.cfg files for all the default aircraft, tweaked for triplehead, and make this publicly available.

I'm not sure how much time I have, at the moment. However, what do you think?


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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2009, 00:36 
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Joined: 25 Apr 2009, 16:15
Posts: 17
John,

I think that's a great idea. I've been going through all my installed aircraft (both default and 3rd party) and have been making the size and position changes to each, and then saving each panel.cfg file into a faux folder structure to mimic the install paths, to make it easy for me to restore them at a later time, should a reinstall become neccesary. The last default aircraft I finished was the Extra 300, and the Goose is up next. We can work out a list of aircraft that we can each tackle, and get almost twice the work done in half the time. Let me know which ones you've done or are working on, and we can get these knocked out fairly quickly I'd think. :)

-George

Edited to add: John, check your pm's here. :)


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PostPosted: 15 Nov 2009, 06:27 
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Joined: 26 Aug 2009, 21:29
Posts: 27
Hi George and John,
I'm getting better, but the Pilatus PC-12 Overhead still ignores any changes and I can't grab the border with the mouse. Here's the original config and the new one after I edited the size line. It opens across the whole center monitor and extends part way into the left and right monitors. Can you figure what's up? :? Thanks again. Tom :)

---------------------------------------------
[Window03]
file=PC-12_overhead.bmp
file_1024=PC-12_overhead.bmp
size_mm=1828,813
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=70
window_size= 0.810, 0.472
window_pos= 0.105, 0.000

AFTER MY CHANGES

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window03]
file=PC-12_overhead.bmp
file_1024=PC-12_overhead.bmp
size_mm=1828,813
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=70
window_size= 0.540, 0.315
window_pos= 0.000, 0.000


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PostPosted: 16 Nov 2009, 19:23 
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Joined: 25 Apr 2009, 16:15
Posts: 17
Hi Tom.

I've encountered this on one aircraft so far, though I don't remember which one it was off the top of my head. In my case, it had something to do with the size being defined on one of the gauges. I don't know which one, but I made the changes to each gauge for that window.

Here's what worked in my situation, I can't say if it will or won't work for you, so as always, make a backup copy of your panel.cfg file before making any changes.

What you can try is highlight and copy the entire 'gauge.x' for window.3, then paste it in directly below the highlighted section. Then go up to the first set of gauge entries, and comment out those lines, so that only one set of gauges is 'active'. Finally, remove the size entry for each defined gauge, save the file, and try firing it up in Flight Sim.

For example, if this is roughly your window entry:

[window.3]
file=blah
sizemm=blah
window_size=blah

gauge.0=gaugename 0, 0, 200, 150
gauge.1=gaugename 200, 150, 200, 150
gauge.2=gaugename 400, 150, 200, 150



Then when you've made your changes, it should look something like this:

[window.3]
file=blah
sizemm=blah
window_size=blah

//gauge.0=gaugename 0, 0, 200, 150
//gauge.1=gaugename 200, 150, 200, 150
//gauge.2=gaugename 400, 150, 200, 150

gauge.0=gaugename 0, 0
gauge.1=gaugename 200, 150
gauge.2=gaugename 400, 150



If the changes don't work, you can just remove the new gauge entries, and then un-comment the original entries.

Good luck, and I hope that works for you. It worked for me on a different aircraft, but I don't have the PC-12, so I can't say if this will or won't work for you.

-George


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2009, 14:02 
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Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 13:35
Posts: 2
hi Guys,

Been searching and reading a lot about FSX and multimonitorsetup. I have to reread everything over again because some information in forums is not completly 100% true in all situations. Glad I found this discussion. I don't get it 100% for sure yet but i am convinced that you guys know what is and what isn't possible.

What I want:

- universal glass cockpit working with payware like 737 pmdg for fsx (upcoming) or other payware aircraft.
- seperate pc only for generating outside view
- full screen mode, at least no ugly windowed mode for instruments preferred


pc1 fsx with hardware controls, throttle etc MCP pro en steering
on 3 screens: all additional instruments in 2D mode with or without TH2GO

pc2 outside view 3x 22" with or without TH2GO
done with Wideview

Seems easy..too many possibilities and problems to run into... though is not...at least not to me yet..

I already have TH2GO 3x 19" ("1280x1024 4:3) and 2x 22"(16:9) on 2 pc. Last year I did not use FSX much and i am in the process of builing my ultimate (universal) glass cockpit and also encounterd problems like described in this thread.

so my questions:

Will I for 100% sure be able to display 2D instruments on the 3 19" Screens ? With or without TH2GO preferred ? In full screen mode and payware aircrafts ?

at the moment I have TH2GO with 3 19"and 1 22"on one pc. Lots of problems in 2D. Have to test again when I have more time but hoping due to your experiences in this specific thread some of you can point me in the "best"direction.

Maybe it all sounds a bit stupid: how the heck can I when displaying main panel remove the outside view in 2D mode ?

Thanks

Remco


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2009, 16:38 
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Joined: 13 Oct 2008, 07:06
Posts: 123
Remco,

Indulge my repeating your problem in my own words. You want, in general:

* Top row: 3 screens to display outside view as one continuous scene (rather than forward plus port plus starboard view).
* Bottom row: 3 screens to display instruments in 2D.
* Hardware controllers (eg throttle, MCP pro module, and Yoke).

You want to know the best way to achieve this. That is, you want to know how TH2GO, wideview, and any other alternative might fit into the mix.

Some further specific questions you have are:
* Will payware work just as well as the default aircraft, under the above configuration?
* How can I remove outside view when using a monitor to display only a main panel?

Sorry in advance for not being able to provide a full answer. I have only worked with a maximum of 3 screens, never used payware, nor used WideView.

I'm not close to 100% sure of any of the following as each setup has the potential to through up exceptions to the general rule. I'll tell you want I think is likely.

Consider first using Eyefinity. This is new technology from ATI in their newer graphics cards that allows multimoniter setups. I believe one card can drive 6 monitors (?), which has the potential to simplify many of your issues. However, at the moment you loose bezel management. I consider this a deal breaker for FSX in outside view.

So I'll continue to outline a TH2GO based solution.

For the top row I think you will need TH2GO (I have only used the Digital Edition) in order to have the one continuous scene (with the bonus of bezel management). This could be in windowed or full screen mode although full screen mode is recommended by MS for performance reasons.

SoftTH would be an possible alternative but probably not practical given that FSX is frame rate intensive.

For the bottom row I do not think you will need TH2GO. You just have 3 independent monitors driven by two graphics cards.

The main lesson from this thread, in brief, is that for 3 screens, under TH2GO (and probably for eyefinity or SoftTH), you should resize panels by a third in the width dimension. You leave the height dimension untouched. You do this by altering, in the panel.cfg for your aircraft:

window_size= width, height

eg to

window_size=0.333, 1.000

The rest of this thread goes into further details and exceptions.

The above (brief) rule applies equally for windowed mode or full screen mode. However if you are not using TH2GO (nor eyefinity nor SoftTH) to drive your 3 screens, that is, if you are just using 2 graphics cards to drive 3 screens independently, then you do not need to touch the panel.cfg. This is because you will have 3 screens at single monitor resolutions, eg 3 X (1280 x 1024), rather than 3 screens at a surround resolution, eg 3,840 X 1024.

In other words, for your setup, you shouldn't need touch window_size in panel.cfg.

Syncing the FSX between your two PCs might be best achieved through WideView. However, I seem to recall on this forum someone using daisy chained TH2GO units rather than WideView (for more than 3 monitors) .... so keep searching for that thread :)

Edit: I'm not clear how you preserve your panel layout using Wideview. Presumably, at least, after manually arranging your main and sub panels you can save the whole thing as a flight.

Payware should work just as well as default aircraft. However, this is provided that they conform to MS conventions. If there exists a panel.cfg for a payware aircraft I don't see why it shouldn't work.

There are several suggested methods to remove outside view using wideview settings (or using methods independent of wideview).

If none of those work for you I tried:
* Open your aircraft's panel.cfg
* Set each of the values under [Default View] to 0. That is,
Code:
[Default View]
   X=0
   Y=0
   SIZE_X=0
   SIZE_Y=0


This give squashed the outside view to a 50px X 50px square in the top left corner. Less than ideal but something.


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2009, 17:59 
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Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 13:35
Posts: 2


thanks for your answer.

But I meant:

When I have the main panel of an aircraft on lower screens (no wideview just fsx) i dont want to see above the 2D panel, an outside cockpit view (because that outside view is already on upper 3 screens)


(in the picture I have undocked instruments though not the main panel)


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2009, 03:36 
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Joined: 26 Aug 2009, 21:29
Posts: 27
Hi George,
Here is my entire Window3 file. What do you mean by removing the size entries? As you can see, the gauge entries are quite complicated and I am not sure what to remove. Thanks for hanging in there with me. Tom

[Window03]
file=PC-12_overhead.bmp
file_1024=PC-12_overhead.bmp
size_mm=1828,813
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=70
window_size= 0.810, 0.472
window_pos= 0.105, 0.000

gauge00=F1PC12!Overhead VoltAmps, 585,167,130
gauge01=F1PC12!Engine Start, 177,667,70
gauge02=F1PC12!Switch Beacon Lights, 287,286,70
gauge03=F1PC12!Switch Taxi Lights, 175,87,70
gauge04=F1PC12!Switch Master Power, 1203,73,220
gauge05=F1PC12!Switch Nav Lights, 287,185,70
gauge06=F1PC12!Switch Strobe Lights, 175,288,70
gauge07=F1PC12!Switch Landing Lights, 287,87,70
gauge08=F1PC12!Switch Fuel Pump L, 175,534,70,70
gauge09=F1PC12!Switch Fuel Pump R, 287,534,70,70
gauge10=F1PC12!Switch Logo Lights, 287,386,70,70
gauge11=F1PC12!Switch Recognition Lights, 175,386,70,70
gauge12=F1PC12!Switch Wing Lights, 175,185,70,70
gauge13=F1PC12!Switch Fire, 67,287,70,70
gauge14=F1PC12!Switch Boots, 1580, 88 ,70,70
gauge15=F1PC12!Switch Boots 3min 1min, 1477,88,70,70
gauge16=F1PC12!Switch Cabin Heat, 1477,687,70,70
gauge17=F1PC12!Switch Cooling Fan, 1580,543,70,70
gauge18=F1PC12!Switch Cooling Recirc, 1477,420,70,70
gauge19=F1PC12!Switch Cooling System, 1580,420,70,70
gauge20=F1PC12!Switch WS Washer L, 1580,190,70,70
gauge21=F1PC12!Switch WS Washer L HL, 1477,190,70,70
gauge22=F1PC12!Switch WS Washer R, 1580,289,70,70
gauge23=F1PC12!Switch WS Washer R HL, 1477,289,70,70
gauge24=F1PC12!Switch Cooling Vent, 1477,543,70,70
gauge25=F1PC12!Switch Ignition, 286,666,70,70
gauge26=F1PC12!Switch Inertial Separator, 1685,190,70,70
gauge27=F1PC12!Switch No Smoking, 1685,420,70,70
gauge28=F1PC12!Switch Probe Heat, 1685,289,70,70
gauge29=F1PC12!Switch Prop Deice, 1685,88,70,70
gauge30=F1PC12!Switch Seatbelt, 1685,543,70,70
gauge31=F1PC12!Switch Pusher, 67,186,70,70
gauge32=F1PC12!Switch AV1, 624,664,52,102
gauge33=F1PC12!Switch AV2, 518,664,52
gauge34=F1PC12!Switch Battery 1, 624,374,52,102
gauge35=F1PC12!Switch External Power, 729,374,52,102
gauge36=F1PC12!Switch Gen 1, 520,374,52,102
gauge37=F1PC12!Switch Gen 2, 1185,370,52,102
gauge38=F1PC12!Switch Inv Gen 1, 1078,662,52,102
gauge39=F1PC12!Switch Non Essential, 730,664,52,102
gauge40=F1PC12!Switch Standby Bus, 1184,662,52,102
gauge41=F1PC12!Switch Overhead Test, 67,90,70,68
gauge42=F1PC12!Light Gen 1, 533,472,25,25
gauge43=F1PC12!Light Gen 2, 1199,472,25,25
gauge44=F1PC12!Light Battery 1, 638,472,25,25
gauge45=F1PC12!Light Avionics, 638,638,25,25
gauge46=F1PC12!Light External Power, 743,472,25,25
gauge47=F1PC12!Light Standby Bus, 1247,640,58,25
gauge48=F1PC12!Light Avionics, 532,637,25,25


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2009, 07:05 
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Joined: 13 Oct 2008, 07:06
Posts: 123

When I have the main panel of an aircraft on lower screens (no wideview just fsx) i dont want to see above the 2D panel, an outside cockpit view (because that outside view is already on upper 3 screens)


Yes I understood this to be your case. My suggested changes under [Default View] are one possible way to (inadequately) achieve this. For my default 737 I get the main panel (in 2D), a black screen replacing outside view, except the 50 x 50 pixel top left window containing the outside view.


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2009, 08:01 
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Joined: 25 Apr 2009, 16:15
Posts: 17
Hi Tom,

in the gauge definitions, the first two numbers correspond to placement based on a scale that is defined in size_mm. Any numbers following the placement coordinates are used to define the gauge's size relative to the size of the panel window. For example, in the line:

gauge08=F1PC12!Switch Fuel Pump L, 175,534,70,70

gauge08=F1PC12!Switch Fuel Pump L, (This part of the line defines the gauge to use)

175,534 (These first two values define the coordinates to position the gauge in relation to the panel's size_mm definition)

,70,70 (These values define the size of the gauge in relation to the panel's size_mm definition)

In most cases, the sizes defined for individual gauges do not have a negative impact, however I have encountered one plane where the panel window wouldn't resize until I had removed the size entries from that particular panel window.

Here's a modified version of the window code you posted above for you to try. I can't guarantee that this will or won't work for you, so as always, make a backup of your panel.cfg file before making any changes. Then try replacing the [window03] entry with the one from below:

[Window03]
file=PC-12_overhead.bmp
file_1024=PC-12_overhead.bmp
size_mm=1828,813
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=70
window_size= 0.810, 0.472
window_pos= 0.105, 0.000

gauge00=F1PC12!Overhead VoltAmps, 585,167
gauge01=F1PC12!Engine Start, 177,667
gauge02=F1PC12!Switch Beacon Lights, 287,286
gauge03=F1PC12!Switch Taxi Lights, 175,87
gauge04=F1PC12!Switch Master Power, 1203,73
gauge05=F1PC12!Switch Nav Lights, 287,185
gauge06=F1PC12!Switch Strobe Lights, 175,288
gauge07=F1PC12!Switch Landing Lights, 287,87
gauge08=F1PC12!Switch Fuel Pump L, 175,534
gauge09=F1PC12!Switch Fuel Pump R, 287,534
gauge10=F1PC12!Switch Logo Lights, 287,386
gauge11=F1PC12!Switch Recognition Lights, 175,386
gauge12=F1PC12!Switch Wing Lights, 175,185
gauge13=F1PC12!Switch Fire, 67,287
gauge14=F1PC12!Switch Boots, 1580, 88
gauge15=F1PC12!Switch Boots 3min 1min, 1477,88
gauge16=F1PC12!Switch Cabin Heat, 1477,687
gauge17=F1PC12!Switch Cooling Fan, 1580,543
gauge18=F1PC12!Switch Cooling Recirc, 1477,420
gauge19=F1PC12!Switch Cooling System, 1580,420
gauge20=F1PC12!Switch WS Washer L, 1580,190
gauge21=F1PC12!Switch WS Washer L HL, 1477,190
gauge22=F1PC12!Switch WS Washer R, 1580,289
gauge23=F1PC12!Switch WS Washer R HL, 1477,289
gauge24=F1PC12!Switch Cooling Vent, 1477,543
gauge25=F1PC12!Switch Ignition, 286,666
gauge26=F1PC12!Switch Inertial Separator, 1685,190
gauge27=F1PC12!Switch No Smoking, 1685,420
gauge28=F1PC12!Switch Probe Heat, 1685,289
gauge29=F1PC12!Switch Prop Deice, 1685,88
gauge30=F1PC12!Switch Seatbelt, 1685,543
gauge31=F1PC12!Switch Pusher, 67,186
gauge32=F1PC12!Switch AV1, 624,664
gauge33=F1PC12!Switch AV2, 518,664
gauge34=F1PC12!Switch Battery 1, 624,374
gauge35=F1PC12!Switch External Power, 729,374
gauge36=F1PC12!Switch Gen 1, 520,374
gauge37=F1PC12!Switch Gen 2, 1185,370
gauge38=F1PC12!Switch Inv Gen 1, 1078,662
gauge39=F1PC12!Switch Non Essential, 730,664
gauge40=F1PC12!Switch Standby Bus, 1184,662
gauge41=F1PC12!Switch Overhead Test, 67,90
gauge42=F1PC12!Light Gen 1, 533,472
gauge43=F1PC12!Light Gen 2, 1199,472
gauge44=F1PC12!Light Battery 1, 638,472
gauge45=F1PC12!Light Avionics, 638,638
gauge46=F1PC12!Light External Power, 743,472
gauge47=F1PC12!Light Standby Bus, 1247,640
gauge48=F1PC12!Light Avionics, 532,637

//------END OF WINDOW CODE--- DO NOT COPY BELOW THIS LINE----


If that still doesn't get the window sized properly for you, return to the previous code, then try commenting out the window_size= line, and try to scale things down using the window_size_ratio= value. Naturally, this will shrink things down in *all* directions, instead of allowing you to define a specific size for width and height independantly of each other, but it may be the 'last resort' to try and get that stubborn panel to cooperate. If I had the PC-12, I'm sure I could be more help to you, but since I don't, all I can do is try and post the things that I would try, and hopefully one will work out for you.


On an unrelated note, I've found that main panel windows that cause the VC to shift upwards a bit (leaving a black bar on the bottom quarter of the screen while the main panel is being displayed) can be worked around by including an alpha_blend value.

For example, if you have an aircraft that is displaying this 'shifting' behavior when the main panel window is opened and closed, edit the window section that corresponds to the main panel window of that aircraft (usually [Window00],) and add the following line:

alpha_blend=0.99

This has fixed the shifting vc issue that I've had with a few aircraft when opening and closing the main panel windows.

Hope this info is helpful, and hope to hear back from you with good news on getting that panel sized. :)

-George


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